Behavior Support: A Coaching Call with Brandy Brown, Ep. 129 Instructional Coaching with Ms. B

Behavior Support: A Coaching Call with Brandy Brown, Ep. 129 Instructional Coaching with Ms. B

Chrissy Beltran [00:00:00]:

Are you new to coaching? Starting out as a coach can be incredibly overwhelming, especially when you aren’t given much direction from your administration. That’s why I created the new coaches playbook. It includes a roadmap to help you start building your coaching foundation and a guide to seven podcast episodes in order that will give you the steps and ideas you need to build relationships, define your role, communicate with your admin, and make a plan to start coaching. Coach, what’s your instructional coaching personality type? Have you ever wondered what superpowers make you a really strong coach and what areas you can strengthen with just a little bit of direction?

Chrissy Beltran [00:00:42]:

Well, now you can find out. I created the what’s your instructional coaching personality type quiz to help you answer this very question. Just head to buzzing with missb.com/quizwithacapitalq to take the two minute quiz and get your coaching personality type sent right to your inbox. Even better, you’ll get a playlist of podcast episodes handpicked just for you to help you hone your superpowers and strengthen your areas of growth. I’m so excited to share this quiz with you, so don’t wait to take it. Go to buzzymouthmissd.com slash quiz with a capital Q and learn so much about your coaching style. You’re listening to Buzzing with Miss b, the coaching podcast, where we believe that every teacher deserves a coach, and every coach does too. I’m Krissy Beltran, an instructional coach, resource creator, and coffee enthusiast, and I’m your host. Stay tuned for practical tips and honest coaching talk that will help you coach with confidence.

Chrissy Beltran [00:01:52]:

Hey, coach, and welcome to episode one twenty nine. Today, we are having a coaching classroom management and behavior coaching call, and this is with our guest coach, Brandy Brown. This is the next to last episode of this season. Can you believe it? All month, we’ve been talking about coaching classroom management and supporting positive behaviors in the classroom. We’ve talked about tools that we can use with teachers, you know, how we can help them identify what’s happening in their classrooms and figure out exactly how to create positive change in some of the challenging student behaviors, especially those we’ve seen over the last couple of years. But I know firsthand exactly how challenging it can be to help a teacher really change the way their classroom works. That’s why I scheduled a coaching call today with a coach in the field about this topic. We’re talking about how we can coach classroom and behavior management and problem solving around some of the challenges that she’s facing in her coaching work. So let’s welcome Brandy to the podcast. Welcome, Brandy.

Brandy Brown [00:02:55]:

Hi. Thank you so much for having me.

Chrissy Beltran [00:02:57]:

Well, thank you for joining us today because this is a nice opportunity for other coaches to kind of listen in and hopefully get some ideas that will, support them in some of the issues that they’re having too. Because if you’re having an issue, you’re not the only one for sure. Would you like to share a little bit about yourself and your coaching work so we can get to know you and your role?

Brandy Brown [00:03:16]:

Sure. Again, my name is Brandy Brown. I’m an academic coach, in Georgia. This is my sixth year coaching. I started my career as a math coach predominantly, and did that for two years and have turned into a k two mat and ELA coach and had an everything coach. And, you know, spent a lot of time with my teachers and classes with students. But now I like I said, I predominantly support k through two. So

Chrissy Beltran [00:03:46]:

Okay. Great. So you had mentioned that, you know, the topic of this this whole month, really, it’s about coaching classroom management and behavior, and you wanted to share a little bit about some of the challenges that you were having so we could do some problem solving around those. Would you like to talk to us a little bit about what you’re seeing?

Brandy Brown [00:04:03]:

Absolutely. So, you know, we’ve been going through COVID for the last few years. And my district, you know, a few years ago started all virtual, then we went half face to face, half virtual. And last year we were back full in the classroom. And, you know, I coached a lot with content, but we hadn’t experienced as much with behavior. And, you know, I had grade levels that I support where we were having kids, you know, in multiple classrooms ending up in the principal’s office or the eight admit, you know, assistant principal’s office. And, you know, as a coach, I’m used to always going at it from the academic standpoint of like, hey, let’s talk about math, let’s talk about ELA, but hadn’t really spent as much time working on how to coach people through behavior management and how to deal with, you know, students that they may find difficult. So, that’s kind of a little bit of a background of what’s going on.

Chrissy Beltran [00:05:02]:

Yeah. I can totally relate to that because as a new coach and I’m not getting this feeling from you. I actually was stressed out whenever I thought about coaching classroom management because it completely I was like, how am I gonna I feel like management comes from the way you see teaching and and your philosophy and Absolutely. And it’s like so much is embedded in there. It’s the way that you were raised and the way that you were parented and the way that you parent and the way that you interact with people and your philosophy on children and development. And it’s just like, oh, how am I even gonna address all of that whenever what I’m seeing is is detrimental to kids or whenever it’s just maybe not as productive as it could be, and I know that we could find better ways of doing things that would reach more kids. So it’s it’s a like, I remember actively being like, whenever I was asked to do support in that area, just feeling like, oh, what am I gonna oh, this is a horrible feeling. So I can totally relate to that feeling of focusing on the academics and being more comfortable with that. Absolutely. Right. So what kind of behaviors are you seeing in the classrooms, and are teachers aware of these behaviors?

Brandy Brown [00:06:12]:

So that’s a loaded question.

Chrissy Beltran [00:06:14]:

Yeah.

Brandy Brown [00:06:15]:

So the behaviors are I’m seeing, you know, are, you know, teachers are teaching, and we’re in in front of the room getting many lessons.

Chrissy Beltran [00:06:22]:

Mhmm. You

Brandy Brown [00:06:23]:

know, children are talking over each other. You know, kids are saying, no. I’m not gonna do that and walking away and going other places. Or when it’s time to do, you know, independent work, they are not doing anything and, you know, going to bother other kids. And, you know, to me that’s that seems like typical behavior and I’m like, I feel like you. I feel like, you know, managing behavior comes from, you know, how you are as a teacher and but sitting down with teachers and getting them to, like, reflect on whether they actually realize it has varied. So, you know, I have newer teachers that don’t even realize that it’s happening. It’s like they’re still teaching and I’m like, they’re talking. And then I have teachers that I’m sitting down with, you know, and having what I consider to be a tough conversation about so I know that you see it. You know where do you think it’s coming from, you know what things do you think that we can do to kind of you know hone the decision and I don’t know you know coming out of COVID, I know that people are tired and exhausted. There was a lot of changes. But I think I struggled getting through. It was a lot of it wasn’t as reflective as I would have hoped it would have been. That’s a better way to put it. So

Chrissy Beltran [00:07:42]:

Was it more like blaming?

Chrissy Beltran [00:07:44]:

Or

Brandy Brown [00:07:45]:

Definitely more blaming. More you know? But but they just act up everywhere or, you know, never I think when I think about myself as a teacher, I think about the fact that, you know, if my kids are misbehaving, I’m always like, what do I need to change? What do I need to do? But I don’t necessarily feel like in some of the conversations that I had that that ever dawned. It wasn’t like it was like, I feel like I’m doing everything that I can do, and I’m like, well, maybe there’s something else we can think about doing. So there wasn’t a lot of blaming going on.

Chrissy Beltran [00:08:16]:

Yeah. Maybe it’s not so much about how much more we can do. It’s about what we can do differently. It’s not necessarily, oh, I’m doing everything possible. I can’t possibly do one more thing. That probably is true. What can you do instead? You know? Sometimes doing less is more. Right. You know? So maybe we’re doing much that is, like, overwhelming everybody in the room. So it’s a real challenge when teachers don’t see it, and it’s a I mean, I to me, that honestly is, like, a bigger challenge because helping teachers actually be aware of what’s going on in their classroom whenever whether they’re new or not. Because I’ve worked with experienced teachers who did not seem to notice student behaviors or those who just maybe they thought that was fine and they didn’t realize that kids were not actually learning during that time. I can remember talking with one teacher one year, and and she told me she said, well, I don’t want them to be little robots. I said, no. Well, nobody wants them to be little robots. But they’re they’re not listening to you.

Brandy Brown [00:09:12]:

Right. Right.

Chrissy Beltran [00:09:12]:

Know. Right? You wanna listen

Brandy Brown [00:09:14]:

to them.

Chrissy Beltran [00:09:14]:

And she just didn’t see that. She thought that any kind of behavior pro or any kind of a behavior approach was going to require her kids to be, like, falling in step and, you know, everybody turning the page at the same time, you know, like a creepy futuristic, you know, dystopia or something. So that was definitely a challenge. And so one of the things that might work with the teachers who do not see it, and I know these are two different issues, the teachers who do not see it, maybe video coaching might be a way for them to become more aware. Is that something that you’ve already tried

Brandy Brown [00:09:44]:

a little bit? Something I’ve tried. It’s something I’m hoping to try this year. I just need a little bit more openness towards it. Everybody doesn’t wanna be videoed, but we’re definitely pushing for that this year. So it’s not

Chrissy Beltran [00:09:58]:

that might. I wonder if it would be helpful because it’s true. People are you know, I know that COVID went a long way for people to become more comfortable on camera, but depending on how that footage is used, that might depend on how comfortable they are, you know, for that. So or determine how comfortable they are. So one thing that might be helpful is you could say, you know what? I’m gonna I’m gonna be you know? Because they don’t penguins, like, stand against the ledge and push one off to see if the shark comes and gets it? So I’ll be the penguin that stands on the ledge on the edge of the cliff, and you all can push me out of the water and see if there’s a shark. I’m gonna go model can I borrow somebody’s classroom to model a lesson and try and do some video coaching myself on my own teaching so that I can go through this process, share my findings with you? We can watch the video together, you know, and go through whatever organizer you’re gonna use or whatever response questions. And, maybe that’s a way to kind of, break the ice a little bit and to help people see you’re not gonna see a perfect lesson when you

Chrissy Beltran [00:10:56]:

do it because we none of us are ever gonna see a perfect lesson. We just you know, there’s always gonna be something that we’re like, why did I you know, I went to this lesson. And the way that you respond to that can set the tone for the way teachers are supposed to be thinking about their own teaching.

Brandy Brown [00:11:10]:

Right.

Chrissy Beltran [00:11:10]:

Might be a starting point.

Brandy Brown [00:11:12]:

I think that’s awesome. I I hadn’t thought about that, but that’s a great way to actually allow myself to be vulnerable too and, get people to be a little bit more open with me doing it and trying it myself. So thank you.

Chrissy Beltran [00:11:25]:

That’s a good point. Whenever we’re like, teachers are are not being vulnerable, sometimes we have to go, okay. Well, what do I need to what can I do that will, like, say this is okay to be this way? That if they don’t wanna put themselves out there, sometimes we have to put ourselves out there, and it’s not always super comfortable. And, so you might wanna start with a grade that you’re the most comfortable with or, you know, a classroom that you feel good about, at the first time. But over time, you know, if you if you are if you do this multiple times, you can start putting yourself in more challenging situations. So teachers see sincerely that, you know, I’m not pulling out my perfect lesson that I know is gonna work or I’m not, you know, working only with the kids that are in this this angelic class. I’m working with real students, trying real things out, and seeing how they actually pan out once I go through the lesson, and and having an authentic response to that.

Brandy Brown [00:12:14]:

That’s an awesome idea. Thank you for that. Sure. I hadn’t thought about that at all.

Chrissy Beltran [00:12:19]:

You know, it’s, I feel like this is what I think is the beauty of talking to other coaches. And it was always my favorite thing to do was to call and some people look at us, like, complaining, but I was really trying to figure out what do I do differently because we get stuck in our bubble. I know I did. Where you’re just, like, you can only see, like, the walls of your building, and you just, like, get entrenched with the same people. And, you know, it’s like like this this mill of ideas, the same ideas coming. So it can be so draining. And so it helped me so much to call colleagues at other schools or other districts and just be like, well, what do you what do you do? Or what does that look like? Because it’s so hard to think outside of I feel like our schools are really good at putting up hurdles.

Brandy Brown [00:13:00]:

Yes.

Chrissy Beltran [00:13:01]:

And so it’s so hard to think beyond, like, oh, well, what am I gonna do with all these hurdles? You know?

Brandy Brown [00:13:06]:

That’s true. That’s true.

Chrissy Beltran [00:13:08]:

Do you have a coaching partner, or are you a solo coach on your campus?

Brandy Brown [00:13:12]:

So I do have a coaching partner. I have a coach that, works for three five, and like I said, I work with k two. So That’s good. We definitely bounce ideas off of each other. And I worked with some newer coaches last year from other schools, and so we’ve been trying to build our network and start talking more and getting together more to share these same kind of things because we need it so desperately. Right?

Chrissy Beltran [00:13:33]:

Yes. Yeah. You’re so right. And sometimes the district or central whatever your your county, whatever, you know, your language is there, but, they don’t always put things in place for coaches to have authentic dialogue with other coaches. So sometimes just saying, you know what? We’re gonna choose, you know, whatever day, the first Tuesday of every month, and we’re gonna get together and talk or virtually if you have to. But in person, it’s also nice. And, and that can be a really good way to build that coaching community. So I love that you’re working on that.

Brandy Brown [00:14:01]:

Thank you.

Chrissy Beltran [00:14:02]:

So for student for the teachers who maybe see the issues but are saying, well, there’s nothing I can do or I’ve done what I can do or, well, this is just how they are. There’s a couple things that we can think about to kind of hopefully help them be a little more responsive. First of all, video coaching for sure and have them look at okay. Well, this is my action, and this is a student response. Also, sometimes whenever you see kids in a different class and they are no more amazing than I mean, they’re just normal children, but that teacher responds very differently, that can open your eyes up to, oh, maybe there is a different way that I can do this. Because, like, just like we coaches get stuck in our school bubble, they get stuck in their classroom bubble or their grade level. And, so if they could have the opportunity to see other teachers, whether that’s video or in person, do some, classroom visits or data walks, whatever you call them. What do you call what’s the, the big push a few years ago was, like, instructional rounds.

Brandy Brown [00:15:05]:

Yes. We’re just Well, we’re we’re pushing it now still. So yeah.

Chrissy Beltran [00:15:09]:

Yes. So they’re they’re actually very good. Yeah. So maybe having a set of instructional rounds focused on management might be one way to kinda set the stage for everybody.

Brandy Brown [00:15:20]:

That’s a great idea. It’s a great idea.

Chrissy Beltran [00:15:24]:

It’s I

Brandy Brown [00:15:25]:

hadn’t thought about that.

Chrissy Beltran [00:15:26]:

We have this school, and it’s like, okay. Well, what’s the maximum benefit we can reap? If we focus on management in the beginning of the year, then that’s gonna give you payoff for a while. You know? And, obviously, not like the first two weeks or something like that. That, the earliest year because that’s not real time yet. Right. But, whenever you really kinda look at that across the school, what are we seeing? Are you doing instructional rounds where they visit their grade level, or are they visiting different grade levels?

Brandy Brown [00:15:54]:

We’ve done both. So they and and to be fair, we haven’t done as many in our actual building. We’ve gone outside of our building more so than being inside, but they’ve done, you know, same grade level, and they’ve also seen different grade levels.

Chrissy Beltran [00:16:06]:

Okay. Great. So then now they’ve had the practice with other schools, and you’re saying, okay. We’re gonna bring this home with our own people. Like, now we’re we should we’ve hopefully developed some of that relationship with each other where we’re not so nervous about having each other in the classroom. We’re working on developing a community of teachers that learns together and is a true PLC. And this is how we can do it is by getting into each other’s rooms and seeing what we have to offer each other. Everybody has these special skills. Everybody has something they do really, really well. Even those teachers that you’re like, oh, boy. This this classroom needs you know, they need a lot of support right now. There’s something that they have to bring to the table. Even if they have to practice with you first, you know, they can they can definitely offer their colleagues something. And so, yeah, focusing on on management and routines, you know, what’s in place that is supporting student behavior. How are students reacting to redirection? You might consider, you know, having some very focused documents that that cover the different facets of behavior, including engagement and, not just compliance, you know, but actual engagement in the content and routines and organizational systems and, what the behavior is there an apparent behavior plan? What does it look like? You know? How is the classroom design set up to support behavior management? Is there a place for kids to go when they have had it and they are you know, they know that nothing good is gonna happen at that time, so they need a little space or a minute. What do they do? You know? So maybe I’m sure there’s something you could find online, some sort of tool that you could find online that’s already done, and then you could just modify it to suit your needs. But that might

Brandy Brown [00:17:39]:

be great. My next question. Okay. Say, where would I get that resource from?

Chrissy Beltran [00:17:43]:

You know? That is such a good question. And so now I feel like as soon as I’m done with this call, I need to go hunt something down. I’m sure there are instructional round tools for that, or maybe I need a bigger resource for that. That might be good too, that you could use. I do have, I’ve actually got in my instructional coaching mega pack, but this is more of what it’s like a coaching cycle form that you could you could you could adopt things like this to work for teachers where they they could tally, you know, like, how many which students are participating or, you know, you can note different things in at different times and do several rounds with it, just to kind of see, like, what does a teacher have in place. And and then having a good dialogue about it afterwards, having some good, really well thought out questions that are very specific to your campus would be helpful because then they get together afterward. And the real value in those instructional rounds is the dialogue we have afterwards with each other, where we, oh, I didn’t notice that, or, oh, what did you think that was? Oh, I perceived it this way, or I know I could apply it this way. So bridging, like, this is what we saw, this is what we think it means, and this is how we can apply it.

Brandy Brown [00:18:49]:

Great idea. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you.

Chrissy Beltran [00:18:54]:

Hopefully, that would set, like, a foundation that everybody would say, okay. This is some this is an area we can grow in, making it kind of a school wide focus and telling them, guys, people are having these issues across the country. This is not just our school, but but our school has to figure out how to respond to it. And these are the kids that we have, so what are we gonna do? You know? We did one year as a campus. You know, we read some research about how how challenging it is for kids to move from face to face in the school and have all different expectations. And so we did, as a campus, create an aligned program. And it I mean, it was not perfect, but it was a start. It was like a way for teachers to use similar language and for us to reinforce the idea that you have to explicitly teach routines and expectations if you want kids to know what to do. Because people are like, he’s 10 years old. He’s in fifth grade. He knows what to do. No. They do not. I wish they did. They do not.

Brandy Brown [00:19:53]:

Right. Right. Right. And so do you think something like that I mean, I know we do PBIS at our school, and I we have, like, a matrix. And we do talk about, you know, how that is supposed to transfer into the classroom. But do you think maybe being more intentional about using the same language in those spaces that’s on that matrix will be more helpful, because I think we may have gotten away from that a little bit. So, you know, maybe we need a refresher.

Chrissy Beltran [00:20:24]:

Yeah. That would be great. So, actually, then if that’s something you already are using, then use that to guide the document that you create. Okay. So it’s all tied together. Because you’re saying, hey. We’re gonna come back. This is what we believe about about behavior management. So then we’re gonna come back, and we’re gonna analyze our classrooms for this, and we’re gonna have discussions around it, and then we’re going to do some reteaching. We’re gonna you know, one thing that I did that our team did whenever we were doing those that behavior program and kind of writing it together is we went through we created, like, a document that had all the different, things that we would look for in terms of our like, this is what we had set up. And then we went as a as a leadership team to the school, and we just recorded do we see it, do we not, do we see it, do we not, and examples, things like that. And then from there, we can, like, calculate the percentages. And it just keeps it wasn’t like, oh, 37% of you are not doing whatever. It wasn’t anything like that. It was helpful to us to say, okay. This is where we need to focus our PD next. This is where our PLC should be focused. Looking at data is another great way to say, look at how many of our kids are ended up ending up in the office. And we know that doesn’t change anything. I mean Yeah. It really doesn’t. It it’s often a moment of desperation. The teacher’s just like, I cannot I’m gonna lose it if I have to deal with this. This is affecting other kids. It’s affecting the classroom climate. I need this child removed. But it doesn’t change anything for that child. And once the child has left the room, they’re no longer benefiting from instruction, and they’re they’re not developing that relationship with the teacher, and the teacher doesn’t have power anymore. They had to send that’s like saying, just wait till dad gets home.

Brandy Brown [00:22:00]:

Right.

Chrissy Beltran [00:22:01]:

Right. I’m like, no. No. I’m mama. I’m the one that you need to be.

Brandy Brown [00:22:06]:

Right. Right.

Chrissy Beltran [00:22:07]:

You’re no way to

Brandy Brown [00:22:08]:

do that. Sending multiple of them, then it’s you know, you’re losing all of them. And so

Chrissy Beltran [00:22:12]:

Yeah.

Brandy Brown [00:22:12]:

These are these are definitely good suggestions, like, lots of them for me to start with. So because I like you said, I, you know, my coaching background is more academic, and no one’s ever talked about how to coach management. You know? I know. And it’s like you can’t really teach if you can’t really manage. So

Chrissy Beltran [00:22:31]:

Exactly right. It’s exact and some coaches have different perspectives on it. You know? Some of them are like, well, the management will come along, but I just don’t believe that. I I personally feel like it’s gotta be if it’s that much of an issue that’s impacting learning, which we know it does, it’s gotta be a focus. You know? Right. And and so, you know, maybe having the faculty as you’re doing this work together, if you have the the luxury of making this, like, a primary focus for your school this year and, you know, coming back to it over several PLCs, maybe having them set some goals around this that they would like to accomplish and then making sure you know, looking back at their PBIS stuff, all the training that they received prior to this, setting some goals, saying things that they wanna work on and get better at and be refreshed on, and then addressing those in PLCs over time. So that way that we’re honoring what it is that they want to get out of it. And they’re saying, well, this is an area that I would like to grow in. You know? Yeah. And if everybody has to contribute something, then, I mean, they’ve gotta write down something they wanna grow in. It’s a goal that they have to write down. It’s not so much like, well, there’s nothing else I can do. It’s like, well, what are what can we get better at?

Brandy Brown [00:23:36]:

I like that. I like, you know, having them come up with a goal, and making it not be you know, I tried everything. I’m done. And I think my administration with, you know, it being a focus, I definitely think it is because I know my AP and my triple were just like, okay. We got kids in our office all day long. Yeah. I definitely feel like this is something that they’ll buy into, you know, us taking a look at and figuring out how we can work on this within our building.

Chrissy Beltran [00:24:04]:

Well, that would be great. And, yeah, that’s that’s who was really instrumental in us creating our program was our assistant principal because, you know, she was the one dealing with it all

Brandy Brown [00:24:12]:

day. Of course.

Chrissy Beltran [00:24:13]:

I was like, can you put together some data for me? She was like, oh, I already have it. She was just like, here you go. Because she had documentation about how many kids she was seeing and where they were coming from and what the infractions were, which was interesting because whenever we looked we used to always think, oh, what’s happening at PE? It’s happening at recess. Kids are getting sent to the office of PE in recess. And when we looked at the data, that was not the case, and we were shocked.

Brandy Brown [00:24:37]:

I would We definitely look need to look at the data because I think in our minds, we all feel that way. It’s happening. It’s specials. It’s happening at singing music. But I I’m pretty sure our data probably will indicate something else as well. So It’s

Chrissy Beltran [00:24:51]:

good. Yeah. You won’t know until you look at it, but it would be good, Jeanette. Like, it’s interesting. It was it was surprising to me, to see. And it’s also really helpful to break that data down by, like, race and ethnicity, by gender because, you know, we see patterns of certain kids, certain races, certain ethnicities being sent to the office over and over, like, at a disproportionate amount Right. After their peers. And so if that’s what’s happening, that’s a whole other thing that you’re gonna wanna address as well, which is about, like, understanding, you know, how kids maybe represent different things in different ways when they come to school. There’s actually an episode on this podcast that is it came out when this episode comes out, it will have come out just a few episodes prior about anti racist behavior management where I interview someone who’s an expert in that field because, that’s a whole other underlying issue that sometimes we don’t address.

Brandy Brown [00:25:41]:

That’s awesome. And that’s a good point. Wow. Thank you. You’ve given me lots to think about.

Chrissy Beltran [00:25:51]:

I know.

Brandy Brown [00:25:52]:

Lots of.

Chrissy Beltran [00:25:53]:

It’s easy to talk about and hard to do, but it’s it’s you know? But, but I’m glad that you feel like some of these ideas might work out for you. How do you think what kinds of things do you think might benefit your teachers the most out of what we’ve we’ve talked about? What do you see them in saying, oh, okay. You know, that that could make a difference for me?

Brandy Brown [00:26:12]:

I definitely think the video coaching is is a good direction. I do feel depending on the teacher, I may need to be the person that’s modeling the video coaching and what that looks like. I really love the instructional rounds. Our district is having a big focus on it, but, you know, looking at it through the lens of behavior management, for our school would probably be more appropriate at this time. And I think that that’s something that we could maybe not easy easy, but e more easily, put together, and start looking at things. And I like the idea of just coming up with something that’s like either we see it or we don’t, you know, based off of the PBIS matrix we already had in place, you know, are we seeing these things or we not? And maybe, you know, talking to that committee too about, you know, meeting with them myself or, you know, our admin team, because then we meet with them anyway and just kind of talking through some of this. Because I think, you know, sometimes the PBIS, it’s like we have it, but we always use it. And that’s the whole point is for us to be using it, right, to have that positive behavior. So those are some of the things that I’m thinking off the top of my head are really gonna, be give us a bang for our buck, should I say.

Chrissy Beltran [00:27:25]:

Yes. Yeah. I love that. That’s great. You know, making it a a clear focus will just kind of change the way people think about it. It takes time because at first people are like, ugh. Like, what else do they expect us to do? You know? But, but over time, if they see some benefit from it, hopefully, you’ll get a good response. If they start seeing something change or even just the the way they thought about it changes, then, hopefully, you’ll start to see people being more interested in figuring out what they could do differently to support kids.

Brandy Brown [00:27:53]:

Yeah. For sure. I I I could totally see that happening. I’m looking forward to it.

Chrissy Beltran [00:27:59]:

Oh, great. Oh, that makes me so happy. Alright. Well, is there anything else that you wanna talk about before we wrap up?

Brandy Brown [00:28:06]:

I guess I’m also interested just a little bit about, you know, when you make suggestions or if you’re talking to someone and having a conversation, I get a lot of, like, what do you think? You know, what should I try, from some people? And I may make suggestions of things that I’ve either used in the past or that I know about some things I haven’t used. But, you know, if people are not receptive to that, they’re asking you, they’re not receptive. They don’t really try anything else. How do you move forward from that? You know, it’s I I I’m like, you something has to be in place. Like, we have to figure something out. Do I take them back to, like, okay. Then let’s work on your rituals and routines then. You know, I’m just I think I get kinda stuck there.

Chrissy Beltran [00:28:53]:

Is it

Chrissy Beltran [00:28:53]:

that they say, well, what would you do? And you say, well, we can try this, and they go, no. That’s not gonna work. Or, no. I’ve already done that. Is that kind of what’s happening?

Brandy Brown [00:29:03]:

Absolutely. Yeah.

Chrissy Beltran [00:29:04]:

Okay. Okay. One thing that sometimes helps is if they go visit another classroom and they see it in action in that other classroom. Because sometimes hearing it from me, they think they know what I’m saying, but they don’t necessarily know how it’s different than what they’re doing. And so it’s hard to, like, visualize it. So sometimes if they go to, like, you know who’s really good at that? They say, well, I don’t know what else to do. They say, you know, I was thinking about this the other day, and I was visiting mister Solonzo’s classroom, and he’s got a really cool such and such setup, you know, whatever it is, that, that maybe this would actually help you in this area. I can set up a business for you and then just, like, go with it. You know? Just kinda make it, like, not really a question. You know? Okay.

Brandy Brown [00:29:46]:

I love that. Okay.

Chrissy Beltran [00:29:48]:

You. Let’s find a good time. I’ll go talk to him. We’ll get it all set up. And so that’s one way to kind of get them to open their doors and and get out of their heads a little bit because it’s it’s easy to be like, no. It’s not gonna work. It’s not gonna work. It’s not gonna whenever you feel so frustrated.

Brandy Brown [00:30:00]:

But Well, I like so I I also like the part of, like, not really asking them and kind of, like, being like, yeah. I’m gonna set it up. We’re gonna go. Like, that need more of that.

Chrissy Beltran [00:30:08]:

Yeah. Yeah. It it’s I have learned that that kind of, like, it’s not you’re not being pushy. You’re being, like, if you have a problem, this is what I can do to help you, so we’re gonna do it. You know? This is the best I can do for you. You want you had a problem? Let’s figure this out. And that way, it kind of like, like this positive force. You know? Like, I don’t know if you’ve seen, that that phrase firm demander.

Brandy Brown [00:30:33]:

Uh-huh. If I have. Yes. I have.

Chrissy Beltran [00:30:35]:

Reminds me of that. Like, we say firm demanders with teachers or somebody who says, you can do this and you’re gonna do it, and I’m gonna help you do

Chrissy Beltran [00:30:43]:

it. You know? And it’s kind of the same way as a coach.

Chrissy Beltran [00:30:44]:

It’s sometimes people are just stuck, and they need a firm demand or to be like, we can do this. Let’s go do it. Let’s do it right now.

Brandy Brown [00:30:51]:

Thank you. Because that’s definitely an error where I’m like, you asked me my opinion, and I shared it, And then you’re kind of like, no. And then I’m like, okay. Well Yeah. Let me think of something else.

Chrissy Beltran [00:31:02]:

No. Exactly. How many ideas am I supposed to come up with here? You’re telling me you don’t have any more ideas, but I’m supposed to come up with 50 if you could choose your favorite one.

Chrissy Beltran [00:31:09]:

That’s right.

Chrissy Beltran [00:31:09]:

It’s not realistic. It’s a lot.

Brandy Brown [00:31:12]:

Okay. Okay.

Chrissy Beltran [00:31:13]:

Yeah. So the other thing you could do, same same philosophy, is you could say, you know, I have an idea of something, but maybe I can model it for you. Let’s set up a day and then just jump right into that. So if they’re asking, well, what would you do? You could say, well, let’s try something else. Let’s do this on Tuesday. Like, just kinda, like, push right into it and, then use that as an opportunity to get into the classroom or to get them into somebody else’s room. Just start to kind of open those doors and try new things.

Brandy Brown [00:31:39]:

I love that. Thank you so much. That’s these are very, very, very, very helpful.

Chrissy Beltran [00:31:44]:

Yeah.

Brandy Brown [00:31:46]:

Major struggles for me. So, just real growth area as far as coaching goes. So

Chrissy Beltran [00:31:52]:

You know, you I mean, you’re not alone. Just remember that there’s I I have been there. I have been equally, like, stressed out. And the in the next episode that comes out after this one, I’m actually sharing a behavior management plan that I use whenever I would model in classrooms that didn’t have a plan that I made out of sheer desperation because I was like, I need something. This is not working. I’m going into rooms to model lessons. It’s chaos. Nothing is in place. The teacher is handling behavior by yelling at kids. They’re not paying attention to the lesson, neither of the students. This is not working. So I created this really simple behavior plan that I would go into classrooms when I would model and co teach, and I would say, you know, during the preconference, hey. Can I introduce this? If they didn’t have anything else in place. You know? And they usually say, yeah. Sure. Knock yourself out. Or, well, sure. Let’s let’s see how you do. You know? Because sometimes it’s a little

Chrissy Beltran [00:32:43]:

bit of nostalgia.

Chrissy Beltran [00:32:44]:

And every time I used it, I’m not I mean, it wasn’t a 100% effective. Nothing is. But it was it was pretty good considering the challenges that were in were happening. And it made a huge difference in the way that I interacted whenever I was modeling and co teaching and the way that I was able to share with the teacher. Look. We can try different things. We can try something. This is a thing that I tried, and this is how it went. And so many times, the teacher would take that and implement it themselves.

Brandy Brown [00:33:11]:

Okay.

Chrissy Beltran [00:33:12]:

So that’s so if you are still seeing a lot of resistance, but you’re going into model for other things, You can always say, hey. You know, I know that that classroom management has been a challenge. Would you mind if I tried this out with the kids while I’m in there? And you can just try something out. And, you know, if they love it, they’ll embrace it, and they’ll keep using it if it works.

Brandy Brown [00:33:32]:

So then I guess this is my last question and and it’s related to behavior of students when they’re with when I’m modeling and I’m doing the lesson versus when it’s their teacher. Mhmm. So the other, I guess, resistance I have is like but when you come in, they’re this way. You know? They’re not, and it’s because you’re so exciting and, like, you’re, you know, a visitor and you’re a guest. And I’m kind of like, well, yeah. But it’s also like there’s an understanding of what they need to do because I’m very clear about what my expectations are. How how do you how do I combat that? I mean, because I I recognize that they’re not me and I’m not them. And, typically, kids are more well behaved for me in in situations than they are when I’m modeling than they are for their teacher. So I I don’t but I don’t know if that’s because I’m me. I don’t think it is. Or if it’s just because they are clear about what my expectations are on my routines and rituals.

Chrissy Beltran [00:34:33]:

It’s so funny. I just recorded the next episode of the podcast, which is and that is I’ve said that verbatim in the episode. I’m not kidding you because I had that same exact conversation with a teacher where after the lesson, I said, well, what did you think? She said, well, they were better, but it’s because you were here and, you know, you’re like a guest teacher. And I was like, they were better because I really explicitly did that. Like, I was I made a mistake of you know? But it was I was like, shoot. I missed my opportunity. You know? So then what I started doing is during the preconference, I would say, this is what I’m going to do to focus on engagement and behavior. And I would introduce it during the preconference so they knew even if they still thought it went better because it was a guest or whatever, at least they knew I was purposefully doing something to make that happen. It wasn’t just magic that it just worked out. I mean, there’s I was explicitly saying these are the expectations for today. This is how you’re gonna know if you’re doing it. This is what it looks like, and this is how I’m gonna say, hey. Good job, team three, for doing whatever. Like, I’m gonna explicitly introduce it during the lesson, and I’m going to point it out as they are doing it throughout the lesson. That’s going to be one of the things I’m going to be aware of, and I want the teacher to know that I’m aware of that before the lesson starts. Because once it’s over, it’s like they can never go back and understand that you did that on purpose.

Brandy Brown [00:35:47]:

That’s that’s great. Okay. That I so cover that in the preconference Yeah. On the front end

Chrissy Beltran [00:35:54]:

Yeah.

Brandy Brown [00:35:54]:

So that you’re not receiving

Chrissy Beltran [00:35:57]:

what

Brandy Brown [00:35:57]:

I call flash you know, flash back on the back end. You know? Okay.

Chrissy Beltran [00:36:02]:

Exactly. Yeah. At that point, they’re like, well, sure. I mean, you did that, but that was gonna but it seemed they seem to respond better whenever you front load it and say, okay. We planned out our lesson, but one major component of teaching is management. Do you have a management system you want me to use? Do you wanna handle behavior, or do you want me to introduce something brief that I can use while I’m modeling? And that way, they they have the opportunity to say, oh, I’ll handle it or, okay. Yeah. Introduce whatever you want. Knock yourself out. Most of the time, they’re like if if there’s no behavior issues, if they have, like, amazing management, they’re like, oh, I’ll handle it. It’s no big deal. And it’s usually not a big deal. And if there are behavior issues or if they feel like it could be better, they all they will always say, yeah. I would like to see what you do. Okay. And then they know you’re doing it on purpose.

Brandy Brown [00:36:48]:

Okay. Okay. That’s that’s a biggie. That’s a biggie for me for sure. So thank you so much because I wasn’t really sure how to address that, and I I get it so often. And it’s one of the reasons why modeling sometimes I’m like, I’d rather just try to co teach with you instead or, you know, observe even though I’d rather co teach just because when I model, I get the, there’s the good for you. And I’m like, yeah. But I’m very clear about what I’m doing and what I expect for them to do, and they know it. So

Chrissy Beltran [00:37:19]:

Yes. I can totally understand that. And I even used it when co teaching in classrooms that didn’t have a good behavior plan set up, that didn’t that everything was crazy, that everything was like chaos. I would I would say, can do you wanna introduce this with me? This is what I’m you know, this is how we can do this. Because sometimes co teaching even

Chrissy Beltran [00:37:35]:

you’re

Chrissy Beltran [00:37:35]:

like, who’s responsible for what? It’s it can be very hazy, and it used to stress me out a lot. So then I would we would make a call a three column chart of this is what’s happening during the lesson, this is what you’re doing, and this is what I’m doing. And then at that time and then we’d also talk specifically about what behavior management would look like during that

Brandy Brown [00:37:53]:

lesson. I love that. Okay. Thank you for sharing these tools with me. I’m I’m learning a lot tonight.

Chrissy Beltran [00:38:01]:

Oh, I’m so happy. That makes me

Chrissy Beltran [00:38:03]:

super happy to hear that.

Brandy Brown [00:38:05]:

Learning a lot tonight. Well, I think for me, that was those are where my major struggles, and I feel like you’ve given me lots of great ideas of things to try, even just, your conversation, the words that you use, the way that you say things. I definitely feel like that’s an area that I can definitely improve in as well to maybe, like you said, be that firm demander and get them you know, kinda push them in the direction. I’ve gotten a little soft, I think, over the years. I’m a little softer than I used to be, and I I tend to not wanna hurt people’s feelings. But, you know, sometimes you we have to get uncomfortable to grow. So

Chrissy Beltran [00:38:46]:

Oh my gosh. That right there is the that should be, like, the tagline for this episode.

Chrissy Beltran [00:38:50]:

So that’s such a good thing.

Chrissy Beltran [00:38:51]:

It is so true, and it’s hard to do it. And, of course, you don’t wanna hurt people’s feelings, but we also but you see, we get softer because we know how people react to things. Right. But if nobody reacts to anything we say, then we also can’t make an impact. So it’s kinda like, you’re always fighting you’re always, like, on the, on a tightrope as a coach.

Brandy Brown [00:39:10]:

Definitely. Definitely walking that very, very tiny line. Yes.

Chrissy Beltran [00:39:16]:

Well, I’m so glad that you got some ideas out of today, and thank you so much for joining me.

Brandy Brown [00:39:21]:

Thank you so much. Have a great night.

Chrissy Beltran [00:39:24]:

Thank you. I absolutely loved my conversation with Brandy. That was so great because I feel like she is speaking for so many coaches. She’s definitely speaking for me as a beginning coach, and I still struggle with some of these things. I mean, ongoing. We’re always growing, like she said. So I really hope that you got some tools out of this that you can use and, you know, kind of a thought process or an approach that you can use to address some of the behaviors that you’re seeing at your school and some of the teachers who are maybe struggling to figure out what they can do differently. If you’re ready to learn more about this topic, I have a few episodes that I wanna share with you. Of course, this whole month has been all about behavior and and classroom management support for coaches and teachers. So you can go back to the last several episodes starting with episode one twenty seven and listen in on some of the, the things that we talked about that can be really helpful to you as you’re working with teachers on classroom management. So one twenty seven, episode one twenty seven was that anti racist behavior management interview that I did with Deanna Smith. So definitely check that out. In episode 19, we talk about coaching classroom management with Haley O’Connor. Episode 75 is about is a coaching call, and it’s about coaching new teachers. And so just like we just talked about, sometimes new teachers have very specific needs in terms of classroom management, so that’s a really great place to go if you’re working with new teachers. In episode 91, I chat again with my friend Haley O’Connor about SEL. So that’s SEL for students, for teachers, for coaches, everybody. And in episode one twenty three, we talked about analyzing behavior data to support coaching cycles. So this was kind of, like, more of, like, a school wide approach. How are we going to address these needs that we’re seeing across the school? But in episode 20 one twenty three, we talked about how to use behavior data to really fill your coaching cycles and help you work with teachers on those specific areas of need. There is a free download for you, and it’s a really good one because it you it actually spells out the behavior management plan that I just shared with Brandy. Whenever I told her that I would go into classrooms and introduce the expectations and talk about how I was going to notice when kids did them and give them team points, that is a free download you can grab and it’s classroom management for coaches. It includes the details on how to use that simple behavior plan when you’re coaching in a classroom and how you can share it with teachers as well. You can get that at buzzywithmissb.com/episode128 and just scroll to the bottom of the post and there’s

Chrissy Beltran [00:41:49]:

a little place for you to enter your email address and it’ll be sent to your email. Next week is the episode that I talked about. It’s the last episode in the season, which is shocking to me that I am finishing season three of Buzzing with Infiniti’s coaching podcast. Did not even envision how this is gonna go, but it’s been great. I am sharing next week the simple classroom management approach that you can use when you model or co teach in classrooms where you see challenging behavior. So many times I’ve been asked to coach in classrooms that had no discernible behavior plan aside from maybe yelling or consequences or punishment. And so it was really stressful and it made me want to avoid those classrooms like I honestly told Brandy. But I also knew those classrooms needed help even more than other rooms. So I had to figure out a plan that would work. I cannot wait to share it with you next week. I’m gonna give you all the details. It’s in the free download, but the podcast is another way to learn all about it. And until then, happy coping.

Chrissy Beltran [00:42:50]:

Thank you for listening to Buzzing with Miss b, the coaching podcast. Want more coaching ideas? Check me out at buzzingwithmissb.com and on Instagram at buzzing with miss b. If you love the show, share it with a coach who would love it too, or leave me a review on iTunes. It’s free, and it helps others find this show. Happy coaching.