How to Evaluate Your Coaching Work with Cory Camp, Ep. 144 Buzzing with Ms. B: The Coaching Podcast

This episode is sponsored by Sibme

Can you believe the school year is almost over? 

This is the time of year when a lot of us wonder where the time went and reflect on what we accomplished. So, this month on The Coaching Podcast we’re talking all about your coaching impact. We’re discussing how to track and reflect on your coaching work to make sure you’re accomplishing the things that you want to as a coach.

Last episode, I talked to Krissy Ogletree Edwards about how to track your coaching work. This week I’m talking to Cory Camp, Director of Professional Learning for Sibme about how to evaluate your coaching work.

Chrissy Beltran sitting on a couch while writing on a clipboard. The words "Episode 144 How to Evaluate Your Coaching Work with Cory Camp" are on the bottom.

During the show, we talk about reflecting on your coaching, gathering feedback from teachers, identifying progress, and talking to your admin about your work. Cory explains why having a common place for coaches and teachers to share goals, notes, and reflections helps make coaching work more impactful. She shares how she uses the Sibme platform to document the coaching process and the way she uses Google Calendar to track her coaching time. We also talk about being proactive and building a calendar of resources for the next school year.

I always enjoy talking to Cory and I love the topics we discuss in this episode. You’ll come away with lots of ideas to help you close out this school year and be prepared for when you return in the fall.

Topics and Questions Discussed in Episode 144 – How to Evaluate Your Coaching Work with Cory Camp

  • How to evaluate your coaching work
  • Reflecting on our coaching value and capacity
  • Looking at results and evidence
  • Identifying different types of progress that teachers are making (because real change takes some time)
  • Gathering feedback from teachers and using surveys to see your impact
  • How Cory uses the Sibme platform in her coaching work to document the process
  • Having a common place for coaches and teachers to share goals, notes, and reflections
  • How Cory uses Google Calendar to identify where she’s spending her time
  • Determining high and low-impact activities to ensure you’re differentiating the different types of things you’re doing
  • Reflecting on our coaching impact and making an action plan
  • Talking with your administration about your reflections
  • Focusing on things in your control and what you can change immediately
  • Being an advocate for coaching work in your building
  • Finding creative ways to be proactive and coach teachers even when you get pulled to do other things
  • Reflecting at the end of the school year and building a calendar of resources based on trends you observed throughout the year

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Podcast produced by Fernie Ceniceros

Episode 144 How to Evaluate Your Coaching Work with Cory Camp

buzzing with ms b  00:01

Are you new to coaching? Starting out as a coach can be incredibly overwhelming, especially when you aren’t given much direction from your administration. That’s why I created the new coaches playbook. It includes a roadmap to help you start building your coaching Foundation, and a guide to seven podcast episodes in order that will give you the steps and ideas you need to build relationships, define your role, communicate with your admin, and make a plan to start coaching. One of the challenges of instructional coaching is finding affordable specialized training that’s designed just for you. That’s why I’m excited to share an online event with you that’s right up your alley. Sibme is hosting a free online conference all about instructional coaching called Better Together. It’s a one day virtual event with dynamic keynote speakers, including Jim Knight, and breakout sessions designed to help you grow as an instructional coach, head to sydney.com/buzz. To register for this free event. That’s s I B M e.com. Forward slash beat us ZZ Sydney, changing the way people learn at work.

buzzing with ms b  01:12

You’re listening to buzzing with Miss be the coaching podcast where we believe that every teacher deserves a coach. And every coach does too. I’m Chrissy Beltran, an instructional coach, resource creator and coffee enthusiast, and I’m your host. Stay tuned for practical tips and honest coaching talk that will help you coach with confidence.

buzzing with ms b  01:37

Hey, coach, and welcome to episode 144 of buzzing with Miss B, the coaching podcast. We are coming up on the end of the year and now is when we really start thinking about how is it possible that a whole school year has passed. That’s why this month is all about your coaching impacts. We’re talking about how to track and reflect on your coaching work to make sure that you’re actually accomplishing the things that you want to as a coach. My guest today is so great. She was back on this podcast in season two talking about how to use video to support your coaching work in one of my favorite episodes. When I shared the topic for this episode with her she had so many great ideas for how we can really be reflective and purposeful in thinking about our work. I cannot wait to welcome Cory Camp from Sibme to the episode. Thank you so much for joining me today, Cory.

Cory Camp  02:24

Hey, Chrissy, so happy to be here.

buzzing with ms b  02:28

Could you introduce yourself to our listeners? I mean, I refer to you episode a lot. But if you want to share a little bit about who you are, and how you ended up doing this kind of work, I’d love to hear about it.

Cory Camp  02:37

Yeah, so I am Cory Camp, I am Director of Professional Learning for an amazing company called Sibme mean, it stands for seeing is believing me. But you know, first and foremost, I’m an educator, and I’m passionate about learning. And I never thought I would become an educator that is something that sometimes people are surprised to hear about me. Just because I am so passionate about our field and the work that we do and the impact that we have. I knew I wanted to have an impact in life, that I wanted to do something that made a difference. And originally that was at working in psychology that was my original career path psychology and art. I wanted to make beautiful things and, and help people. And I get to do that now I create a lot of beautiful graphics and resources for educators and I get to help people. I fell into education, specifically working with children with special needs, decided to get my teaching certification. In my last two years in the classroom, I decided to record my instruction. Because I felt like it would help my students if they had another chance to see that example from the lesson while they were doing their homework or when they were working independently. And that kind of propelled me one as an educator because it really helped me see not just my students, but myself when I looked back at those recordings, and it was I mean, it was really a pivotal point in my career. Suddenly just getting a chance to see what my my own coaches and instructional leaders saw when they would come in and do a walkthrough or an observation to give me feedback. And I made a lot of changes a lot of changes in those last few years in the classroom, and started advocating a lot for my students and supporting teachers on my campus and became an instructional leader and a coach. So I did that at the district level than the regional level. I’ve worked some at the state level and now I work get to work internationally with Sibme. Most of my work is with instructional leaders and coaches and most of my work is housed around how we can transform professional learning for our teachers because I truly believe if we want to change learning in the classroom, we have to change the learning experience for our teachers. yours first, we can’t say don’t sit and get and then set and get them. So that’s kind of where I am, I’m trying really hard to make systemic changes and professional learning. And I video is one of the tools that I use the most with that. But really helping coaches reflect on, on what they do. And the impact of that and what small or large changes might need to happen in order to kind of grow themselves as professionals.

buzzing with ms b  05:31

I love all of that. And I wonder how much your psychology background kind of helped you and help you as you work in the coaching field?

Cory Camp  05:39

Oh my gosh. Right. Like, we not all feel like a little bit like a counselor like a mental health counselor, sometimes. It really it really does help both on how I perform as a coach, the strategies I use in my coaching, my listening and my my kind of paraphrasing back and the skills that I use in the conversations, but also how, you know, how do I get people engaged with me? How do I get them to buy into me as a coach, and this process and motivators? And all of the things that really interested me about psychology are a part of my every day, they’re just with a certain population of people. And those are educators. So yeah, I can totally see

buzzing with ms b  06:23

that. So the thing that I wanted to talk with you about today is how we can reflect on our coaching impact. And it’s, it’s kind of it’s an issue that a lot of coaches ask about, and it sort of it can be kind of complex, because we don’t always have like hard data that explicitly reflects what we’ve done. Sometimes we do, but maybe not. So whenever I say reflecting on your coaching impact, what do you think of

Cory Camp  06:47

reflecting on my coaching impact makes me think about value and capacity? Like those are the two things that that I immediately think about? What value have I built for in the work that I do? You know, because I don’t use the word impact again, right? So what’s the value in the work that I’ve done to others? How are they are they seeing what I’m doing is valuable. I mean, if I’m running on a hamster wheel, but it’s not having an impact on the people around me, then maybe I need to do something differently. And capacity, this kind of comes from my approach, when I was a special educator, my whole goal as a special educator in supporting my students receiving special education services, creating specially designed instruction, you know, building those, those IEP goals, was working myself out of a job, I wanted to build, not only, you know, the Close the Gap in the skills that they had, because of whatever, you know, exceptional abilities they had. But also, I wanted to build advocacy for them, so that they didn’t need me any longer. And if I could do that, then I can move on to the next person and the neck, like, there will always be a job for me. But my goal was to leave that individual better and stronger than when I came in not to become a crutch for them that they would always need me for. And I look at my coaching the same way, have I How have I built the capacity with those that I’ve interacted with, whether that’s doing a coaching cycle, or me I haven’t had a chance to do a cycle with all of my teachers, so but have I built their capacity in some way lifted them up in some way, as a professional and as a human, so that they maybe need me a little bit less. I think there’s always going to be needs in education, there’s always gonna be focuses. So don’t worry, if you work hard to work yourself out of a job, you’re actually never going to do it. But But I mean, if you take that approach, what could you do with that mindset? So, so yeah, those are the two things that I really kind of think about. And then to your point is, how do I know that? How do I see that? That’s the reflection part. How am I going to be able to reflect now about the value and the capacity that I’ve built and added with the people around me?

buzzing with ms b  09:15

Yeah, I really like that. Yeah, no, you’re right. Was we focused on the wrong things? I think, I think sometimes we get very caught up in what did I do? And not so much what is the result I can see in the teachers I’m working with.

Cory Camp  09:28

Yeah, and it’s frustrating too, though, like, because those results sometimes feel so disconnected from I met with that teacher 15 times. And I don’t know. Right? Like, there’s they’re stuck. Students are still struggling. There’s still a gap in achievement for their students. So sometimes it’s like we’re, I’ve noticed some coaches are afraid to, you know, go that far away from like, well, I can just tell you the activities that I did Um, but like, You got to give it more time for us to see it? And I would say yes, yes. And we should be able to see some impact. Right. So what are some maybe maybe you’re trying to measure something that we can’t yet measure? But do you have evidence a little bit closer to home to say that we’re on the right track that what you are doing is in fact, adding value? So that you can kind of then drive forward with those reflections? Yeah, I

buzzing with ms b  10:29

think even in that situation, you’re right. Because some things, some things are seeds, we’re planting for a tree down the road. And so it’s gonna take time, but there are some things that we could see even a change, I think, in, in the teacher attitude towards something, yeah, is a huge thing. I mean, it’s it can feel like well, now she’s trying, I guess, right? It doesn’t feel like much. But that is a huge hurdle that it probably took 15 meetings to get to. So even if that’s the impact that you see, that could be really significant.

Cory Camp  11:00

Yeah, I want to give an example that I mean, I’ve been coaching for, I don’t know, I’m in the double digits. Now. I’m just I’ve stopped counting. I keep getting my birth date wrong, and my age wrong, and my kids are like math. And I’m just joking, I totally lied to my doctor. And my husband’s like, you know, they’ve got your chart, and they know how old you are. And I’m like, that makes me feel like a liar. Anyways, I don’t know how old I am, or how old I’m about to turn. But in the years that I’ve been doing this, even just in this last year, there was a teacher, very, very sweet, sweet, dear friend of mine, shoot, she’s in my community that I worked with. As a coach. I worked with her a little bit through the pandemic, she was one of the remote instruction teachers. And then I had the opportunity to work with those teachers again, the following year, when they was kind of last year when it was their first year back, which was still a very unusual year. Nothing’s been normal since then, as it should be. And I felt like, while we had great conversations, I really struggled. This teacher really struggled with follow through. We had lots of plans, but I was I was frustrated myself, because I wasn’t seeing any product or output from our conversations, even though they were great. And I really started to doubt my value in that that partnership and thinking, I’m probably not the right coach for this teacher, this teacher needs a little bit more support, or maybe do we have the wrong goal? Is that why we’re not getting follow through? And definitely thought that if I have the opportunity, the next year, this teacher won’t sign up for coaching with me again. But she did. And and she told me, she told me multiple times, hey, I know it feels like I know, we haven’t done that choice board thing I’ve been talking forever about. But I just want to let you know that these conversations have been transformative for me like I am thinking like, she I think could probably feel a little bit of the same thing. Like, okay, if I look in the classroom, do I see anything different, but she was thinking differently. And she was very clear and sharing that with me. And so that’s the value I had to then lean on and look for, with her the fact that she chose to work with me, you know, three years in a row, even though we didn’t, you know, rearrange her classroom and do all these things. But even when I run into her now in the community, I’m not working with her this year, because I’ve stepped back a little bit, but she is talking about the things that we’ve talked about. And she’s now starting to do some of those things. So I think that’s also just a reminder that to your point, have Am I hearing my teacher at least starting to replicate some of the thoughts or patterns that I’ve tried to do in our coaching sessions, some people just take a little bit longer to get to a finish line takes them a little bit longer to, to get off the couch and start, you know, walking before they run it just everybody moves and changes at their own pace. And that’s the hardest thing about change management, which is absolutely what we do as coaches. We are managing growth and change. And it’s not always that I go in and do an observation and lesson plan and model and let the teacher do it on their own. And bam. They’re a whole new Teacher Teacher of the Year. It doesn’t always happen that way. And if it does, I mean, I want to know where you’re working because I could feel really good working somewhere like that. Right?

buzzing with ms b  14:39

Is there how do you gather that then as you’re, I’m curious about your missus, this specific example. You know, you notice that the teacher said that she was changing the way she thought about things and it was transforming her thinking even though there was no visible evidence. How would you go about gathering that kind of feedback so that you actually can see the impact?

Cory Camp  14:59

Yeah, So I’ve really dug into, and I use our, our platform, the platform that the club, the company I work for, in, in my coaching work, and we just came out with this amazing tool that allows you to set and document goals. And so I began using I was using that with that teacher. And so even though like, we didn’t have evidence of the choice board in the classroom, she was able to, like put in a reflection and say, Yeah, I know, I didn’t do it. However, I’ve been thinking about like, this is why I haven’t done it. Because I’ve thought about this differently. And I’m thinking about this than she was just she she’s just very much a thinker. And sometimes the thinking indirectly impacted other things. And so in our documentation process, because she and I had this place to kind of action plan and then go back and say, like, did it work? Did it not? Are we doing? And do we need to extend that idea is it still worth following. And we would both kind of keep notes in the process, because I was virtually coaching with her. So that was, you know, our kind of mode of communication between our sessions. And then taking notes in in the sessions, I think also surveys, well crafted questions, entrance and exit surveys, muddier surveys, for how you’re working with your teachers, I think you can glean a lot from some open responses within that Likert scales, those types of things. It’s not always that we’re going to see it immediately in student work samples. So I mean, not to say that I that I want all of my coaching, partnerships to be like that it’s been a very unusual one and one that I still struggle with, because I’m like, It’s it I didn’t, we didn’t actually do the thing that we set out to do, we accomplished a lot. But we still didn’t get to that goal with her. And that kind of bothers me. But she’s gotten a lot of value and benefit out of it. And she said that she’s emailed me about that, and I’ve got the documentation and that matters. So I just have to keep that in perspective, again, that everything’s going to whatever goal is going to be accomplished. But along the way, did was there an impact? And how can we see that?

buzzing with ms b  17:24

Out of curiosity? Does she still want to do a choice board someday? Or is she just is that just like, okay,

Cory Camp  17:32

she does. And she’s got, she’s like, Oh, now I know how to do it. And I’m gonna use it maybe in a different way. But like, that was the thing that she thought was the solution to some different things within her classroom. Like they had to do a certain amount of a reading program, and that she was struggling getting time to do that, and, and all of these other things that she wanted to do, but had to also do in her classroom. And she was figuring out how to best manage her time. And so a choice board was one of those options, and it was going to be one of those like, Okay, you have to do these three things. And once those are done, you’ve got all these other options kind of thing, but students could kind of pace themselves based off of what they want. So anyway, yes, she’s she’s definitely thought about a choice board. And she’s used some other ones like that, that she didn’t make that have like another sorts of situations with her team. So. So yeah, but but I think it was just a more convoluted issue. And then the year changed as we were working on it, different things changed, so that we had to then adjust with that. Yeah, but I think it’s important too, that we don’t just say what you want to work on. And then we’ve got kind of this, the I used to do it all verbally, and then just kind of have my personal notes, it’s been huge for us to have a common place, whether it’s a Google Doc that you do this on, or shared dock somewhere, or an actual, you know, goal setting tool to be able to have that that you jointly created, or even better the teacher goes and types up themselves. A lot of times, I’ll just enter the information for the teacher and say, Okay, this is what we’re saying, right? And make sure we’re in agreement. But then what also does is it helps remind the teacher hey, don’t forget, you know, on Friday, you’re going to share that thing that evidence your flight, you’re working on this strategy. So So yeah, like I need to make that when I think about that impact is was did change happen, even if it wasn’t the change that we set forth to do together. Is there some kind of movement positive movement forward? And then I think it’s also looking at the activities. Like at some point, we had to switch specifically with this teacher. I moved out of okay, We need to stop just talking about what you’re going to do. And the next time we meet, we’re going to do it together. Because something else that had kind of impacted our work is she had discovered, finally, a better balance. She’s like, I’ve been teaching for a number of years, a couple decades. And she’s like, I’ve never felt so balanced COVID had really made her just like, make sure she made time for herself and that she like turned off her email when she got home. And she’s like, I don’t want to, I don’t necessarily want to go back. And I was like, and I don’t want you to go back, I don’t want you to spend all your time all weekend working on choice board. So then let’s do it together. If it something that you feel is gonna take a lot of time, and you don’t have time in the school day to do that. We are meeting in the school day, let’s use our 30 minutes to build this together. And so then, you know, we moved into some planning, co planning and, you know, maybe maybe it would have been that I came in facilitated with her. So thinking about the specific activities I’m doing coaching is so much more than just a therapy talk therapy session, right, we’ve, we’ve got to be moving towards actionable steps, following up on that, and then supporting in those actions where it’s necessary. So, one thing I do in my as I’m measuring impact is I look at my calendar, I color code, the different coaching activities they have planning is, is green, and just like a coaching session, and debriefing is blue. And if I’m actually going to be co teaching or modeling that’s in red, because I know I gotta get ready and put on real pants and get this whole, you know, whatever it might be. But like I can then also quickly look at that. And Google has a super cool feature. Now that which is what I use for my calendar that allows you to label color code and label those color codings. And then it’ll just put out for you for the month or the week, what percent of your time was spent in what color or label? So that’s also a good way to look at it. If you haven’t like you met with a lot of teachers this year, but you didn’t see a lot of change, then what do you need to do differently? Should you be spending all your time in meetings? Or should you start what which of those activities even if they were a small slice of what you did had the most impact, if you’re spending all your time collecting classroom data and crunching the numbers for your teachers and facilitating PLCs, but you’re not seeing the impact that that that should be bringing, but this thing that you only do 10% of the time, which is interesting, we find a lot of coaches actually only coach 10% of their time, their day, then maybe we need to change that system. So

buzzing with ms b  22:45

I’m really glad that you brought that up. Because in the last episode that just came out, I actually had a coach who shared how she uses Google sheets with that add on to to keep track of what she does, and to color code everything and then to see what percentages she spent her time on. And so in thinking about that, like how do you decide what was a high impact or low impact activity? If you’re looking at your at your actual like your summary of your work?

Cory Camp  23:09

Yeah? Well, that’s a good question. So I think first is one making sure that you are differentiating the different types of things that you’re doing. And again, like I love the calendar version, because when I put it on my calendar, because I need it on my calendar, just send me a reminder, by just color coding it, it’s automatically going to crunch the numbers for me, I want that new Google Calendar feature. But then, also, surveys are a big part of it. Like, you know, I end every coaching session just about with what was most meaningful here for you. And whether that is a conversation or a quick co plan or a model lesson. I always ask that of the teachers. And then I also asked them in surveys, you know, of the different things we’ve done together, what was the most impactful for you? Because that’s the important part, right? Like, I may see that there was a huge jump in student achievement with that lesson that we worked on and that particular skill. But if the teacher felt like something else that we did not at all related that lesson was the most powerful thing I need to make sure I keep that in mind as well. So I think high impact low impact for me, it’s also like, do I feel good about it? Do I? Did I have an impact? does it align with what I’m supposed to be reinforcing in my campus or in my district as well? It’s it’s those things that really have the most kind of pro that oh, what’s the word I’m looking for promote the most action and and kind of results. So the

buzzing with ms b  24:52

things that actually serve as catalysts? Yeah, yeah.

Cory Camp  24:56

They weren’t they were definitely a catalyst for it.

buzzing with ms b  24:58

Yeah. Okay. So one of the things that, that you’ve mentioned in the past is how coaches can think about how to be more proactive and reactive. And I feel like you’re starting to think about that and looking back at your work and saying, okay, based on what I can see, these are some of the things that were most productive and most effective in creating change and supporting change. And, and then kind of planning for more of that, in the future, right to kind of center your cycles around things like that. Could you talk a little bit more about what that looks like?

Cory Camp  25:27

Yeah, well, I mean, we’re talking about reflecting on our coaching impact. And I don’t think you’re reflecting, if you aren’t planning for, if you’re not taking that reflection, and doing something with it, learning from it. Like that’s the key with reflection, reflection allows me to take stock of what I just noticed, or learned or heard, and figure out how I categorize that into what I already know, and how I’m going to use that in the future, how that impacts things I might learn or do in the future. Otherwise, you’re just thinking about your coaching impact. So don’t just think about your coaching impact this year, like reflect on it and make a plan to do? Like, do you need to talk with your campus administrator about how you’re spending a lot of time on this activity? That seems to be low impact? And maybe they feel it is a high impact activity? And you need to have a conversation with how we can better how can I better measure that then because the what I’m looking at doesn’t really show its high impact or, you know, from what the teachers are reporting, they don’t feel like that’s the best way that I could be supporting them. So how might I do that differently, or, yes, that that’s high impact, but it takes a lot of time to prepare. So what needs to change so that that impact is, is not being kind of discounted by the amount of time it takes effort it takes to do that. So looking at looking at how you use your year, something that I challenged Kim Kim, my co host for our coach replace show, and I challenged coaches to think about at the start of the school year was also like, what’s your vision for coaching? Why are you a coach? What makes that coaching so exciting for you? Hopefully, you’re excited about becoming a coach, what do you want from it? And then that should also be part of your reflection? Do you feel good about what you’ve done? As a coach? Do you feel like you’ve made an impact? Is all of the frustration and the effort? Has it been worth it? Because the best things are not hard, hard, but they’re worth it. So I think that’s also part of it. And if you could change anything, what would you change? Would you do more of do less have does the data support that and then starting to then plan and that plan probably, again, includes talking to somebody who maybe supervises you, or manages your coaching program and has said these certain things have to happen? Maybe you’re picking up slack, as we all do your subbing a lot of times, and that’s a low impact activity for when it comes to what your role is, and supporting teachers. And so just looking at how do we do less of that next year? So I don’t know, I feel like maybe we went around in circles. But if you took anything from that, again, don’t just think about your coaching impact, reflect on it and create an action plan? How are you going to move forward then doing more of the good things and less of the things that don’t have that good impact? So I really liked that you

buzzing with ms b  28:31

brought up meeting with your administrator and having that conversation and I actually have an episode coming out next week. That’s about what do you do if you realize you’re not being used for meaningful coaching work, because it happens to us, it’s happened to me, it’s happened to everybody, especially right now, coaches are of the spare person on campus. And I just made quotation like air quotes, because you don’t have a classroom, but you are certified. And you can probably do whatever needs to be done because you’re in a coach, because you have figured out a lot of stuff,

Cory Camp  29:01

you know, more than just a pulse, right? Sometimes somebody with a pulse. And sometimes we really, it’d be even better if we had somebody who Yeah, who could,

buzzing with ms b  29:08

you know, knew some things, you know, and they can dump you into any classroom and they can assign you any random tasks. And whatever the state decides is important today, they can put it on your desk, and you don’t have students that you’re looking at going sorry, guys, I can’t teach you today because I’ve got to do this documentation. So that’s I’m really glad you brought up having that dialogue. Because I do think that without it, sometimes it’s just a cycle. We just continue to be unproductive and to feel terrible. And it’s more about the role we’ve been put into necessarily than the choices that we’re making sometimes.


Yes, sometimes there are things you so talk about locus of control, what’s in your locus control orders, my favorite second grade teacher, Mrs. Mackenzie says what’s in your hula hoop. Hope is just within your arm’s reach, right? What what fits in your hula hoop and what is outside your hula hoop and so That’s a good visual visual for everyone listening. And that it should also be part of what you’re reflecting on. What can I What immediate changes can I make or become more consistent in again, change isn’t always like, Oh, I wasn’t doing this right. And I need to do it differently. It might be that worked, I should do that more. What are some immediate things that you can do? What are some things that are going to take a little bit more time for you to become more consistent or learn how to appropriately Do you know, so it eventually has less effort. But then what are some things that are again, out of your control, maybe your district, you know, coordinator says, you should not be subbing but then you’ve got a campus principal who’s like, I need you. And we’re all in this together. And we’ve all been kind of jumping in, I can’t tell you the number of not just principals, but district level leaders who are like I’m subbing today, like we’re in it, we’re all in this together. But here’s the here’s the issue with the difference between what the research tells us about the impact, the potential of instructional coaching, in other studies around instructional coaching, and how high of an impact it has is done with people who actually coach most of the time, right. And so the issue that comes into like around data collection, and the reason I said, Please collect the data around what you’re doing, be knowledgeable, round, don’t just go do the things and then look back at the end of the week, and be like, who I coached a lot, I don’t know how, but I did it, like actually document those things, maintain a calendar, even if your teachers don’t maintain one. Because at some point, someone’s gonna say, you know, Cory, we’ve had you coaching for a while really just not seeing the impact of this. And I think we’re I have to put you back in the classroom next year. If you want to fight for your job, if you want that, that might be the thing that kind of helps you. Not that I want to scare anybody to say that. But we’re seeing it all over the country where people are going, you know, what we were kind of, we’re meant we’re just bootstrapping our coaches this year, we’re putting a lot of our budget, we just haven’t seen the impact, we need more teachers anyway. You know, if you don’t want that to happen, then you need to be your biggest advocate, your biggest cheerleader, you need to be aware of how you’re spending your time, what that impact is of that time, and not just at the end of the year, but throughout the year saying, hey, you know, I spent a lot of time covering classes, which meant I wasn’t able to do these things, which we’ve decided is really valuable. You know, it’d be great if next months, I could be pulled less for doing those or I could do this differently. Again, sometimes things are out of our control. And we have to do what we need to do, because we’ve got kids in our building, and we need to meet their needs. But at least keeping the conversation alive. And it’s not something that just happens at the end of the year. So an absolutely have half those conversations with the other leaders on your campus and in your district. Because if you really believe you can make a change, then that should be the thing that you’re advocating for is teacher support. So

buzzing with ms b  33:14

yep, I totally agree. And as long as as coaches continue to say, Sure, I’ll cover that class. Sure, I’ll cover that class, there is zero incentive for the system, to figure out how to Yeah, to change, to find a way to get subs to get people interested in subbing at schools. They don’t have to pay them better. They don’t have to pay them anything, because they’ve got you already on the payroll. And so they won’t figure out how to keep subs on retainer like some districts have. And they won’t figure out how to get better qualified subs for long term, you know, placements because by by making sure that they actually get a stipend every month by being available, you know, SunRype districts do these things. And they have great long term subs, and then some don’t. And you’re met with such like a crisis every time somebody has a baby. Right? Yeah,

Cory Camp  34:05

exactly. Exactly. So and that’s all part of being proactive, be proactive throughout your year, but then at this time of the year as well, like how can you be proactive? If you know that you are in a district that doesn’t have the has a faulty system right now for classroom coverage. Part of that is also accept your reality, still work on changing it still advocate for the change. But if I know that it’s likely that I’m only going that I’m going to be in classrooms, 13 days, school days out of the month, this month, because that’s the average, but I still have teachers who need support who are unclear about the new curriculum that we’ve adopted and they need some learning opportunities and I can’t pull them after school. Then use technology let’s get proactive and think outside the box right? Create a video and and or start a newsletter or do something that’s going to allow you to still stay in touch with your teachers, even if you’re teaching alongside them in the room next down the hall. So you can still provide support in some way. Now, again, that’s all within our limits. But that would be something that this time of year would be good to start planning, like, what would those topics be? If you look back at your activities? And and the thing like your notes, what did I wouldn’t have a lot of questions about what do I you know, I can look at my year and have an idea of when I’m going to be talking about classroom management, what am I gonna be talking about rigor, formative assessment, like I, I can tell you those months that those things become hot topics in my coaching, because in all the years and all the places that I’ve coached, that’s just par for horse. But then I can use that inflows, that trend data to then be planning out some things and getting ready for that in August when I’m back on contract before teachers come in finding resources that I’m going to share in November around rigor and formative assessment. And then I’m going to share at the beginning of the year around, you know, classroom management and building relationships in September and August. So starting to think about some of those things as well. And again, surveys are a great way to get that, what what do you need from me? What support do you need, and you can look at that if you’re doing like a Google survey, you can look at the timestamps for those responses and start to kind of build a trend of needs, in addition to what the district’s initiatives are for that year. So

buzzing with ms b  36:31

I love that suggestion. Yeah, that’s great. You can build your own kind of calendar based on what you saw, and say, Okay, I’m going to prepare some things, maybe even over the summer, some people actually enjoy doing things over the summer to prepare for the school year. And if that’s you, creates a little mini PB videos, you know, provide some resources, like a little resource newsletter, click here for the video, click here for the handout. And then that way, you have that ready to go whenever the school year starts. And you know, you’re going to be pulled at least you can be providing some support that way, I love that.

Cory Camp  37:00

And that’s coaching, right? Like that, that is one of the coaching activities is providing professional learning to our teachers, it’s not always about and you’re gonna have some teachers who they don’t, they don’t need you necessarily all year long to be popping in and observing and giving feedback and cooperating with them and doing a whole full, you know, impact cycle. But you are providing a lot of support to them, when you drop in these really useful, relevant ideas that they can kind of take and run with. It also increases creases, you’re what we like to call it marketing, brand awareness, I realize that, you know, Chris, he’s got a lot of great stuff on in her newsletter, or on her website, and she’s now a value added place, I’ve added value to my teachers and built some credibility. And they know they can come to me, or my resources when they need something. So being sure to kind of look at that and then put those things on your calendar, like when you issue that next newsletter or those types of things. And, you know, keep track of that. So much of coaching, I think is it’s relational. It’s very much kind of that psychology kind of piece. It’s, it’s also marketing yourself, your resources, your services, because people have to buy in, they’re not giving you money, but like you’re kind of working almost like as a an in house consultant. And so how do you get them to engage with you and come back be a repeat customer? So those are all things? That’s another thinking of that another way you might in measure your impact? How many repeat customers did I have this year? How many volunteers versus voluntold? voluntold come back as a volunteer right. Those are things too, that you can kind of look at as well. Yeah, that’s

buzzing with ms b  38:49

a really good point. I love repeat customers. That’s a great. That’s a great way to look at it. Awesome. So one of the questions that I’ve started asking people and all this information has been fantastic, by the way, I really loved it. But I’m really curious to hear about is about their favorite thing. What is your favorite thing right now? And it can be a book, an activity, a product, anything that you’re really loving right now? What is your favorite thing?

Cory Camp  39:14

And I saw that question as we were preparing. And I didn’t think about it. I was like, Oh, that’d be easy. I’ll come up with it. Right. My favorite thing is okay, silly. Fringe. It’s become my new like, I am rubbish. Or like, oh, no, like actual fringe. Take me back to Texas Rodeo 1990s with the Western shirts with the fringe detailing. Yeah, really want a like fake suede jacket? Jacket. I can only find them in my daughter’s sizes. If anybody has a hookup please let me know I’m like specifically like a tan suede. Or I’ll even take leather pleather I’m obsessed with that right now. I saw something really cute like on a Facebook ad and I was like, Oh my gosh, I could pull that off. I live in Ohio. I’m no longer in Texas, but I’m a diehard Texan. And so turquoise and fringe are like this latest thing that I’m like having quite a bit. I did just find myself a turquoise ring.

buzzing with ms b  40:18

I see it. Yes, it’s finding, like handling

Cory Camp  40:21

especially because I’m online a lot doing a lot of stuff. But I just can’t wait to for my new Midwestern friend. I mean, we’ve been here for five years in the Midwest for my Midwestern friends to see me walking down Broadway, with my friends jacket on. I’m gonna rock that puppy when it comes out. So, anyway, yeah, that’d be

buzzing with ms b  40:41

great. I did. I’m sure. Now we know No, I get it. We all have these little like, I don’t know, obsessions that we go through. That reminds me of a period that I had when I was a kid that was like a faux suede purse with fringe on it because I was. Yeah,

Cory Camp  40:58

I mean, it’s got all the movement. Fun. You know, it might also kind of distract from the little bit of weight. I’ve gained aural over the break. You understand? A little distraction visually. Right? So movement, guys, we

buzzing with ms b  41:12


Cory Camp  41:14

When a movement look away look. Oh, I’m embarrassed. No, don’t

buzzing with ms b  41:22

be embarrassed. That’s great.

Cory Camp  41:24

I learned no shame in my game, y’all.

buzzing with ms b  41:25

There shouldn’t be because, you know, everybody has had such wildly different answers to this question. I’m so glad I started asking it. And then I just left it like his favorite thing because it could be anything. It’s the best. So I

Cory Camp  41:37

might have to steal this because this is really interesting. Also, like, I’m going to be analyzing people with my like non existent psychology background, my very little psychology background on what they say. I mean, Elisa myself right now like really? You just said that to all those people. So yeah, French,

buzzing with ms b  41:53

I love it. Turquoise. And I did want to mention that one of one of my guests earlier this season, AJ Crable. He said that Sibmeis his favorite thing right now.

Cory Camp  42:04

So gosh, I love that. I love that. Yeah, yeah, I mean, we have done. So I mean, Sibme was my favorite thing when I was a customer years ago. But it really is such I never saw myself outside of public education. And so when we moved to the Midwest, I had the choice of working for the Department of Ed here in Ohio, continuing my work with exceptional learners, or working remotely from Sibme as director, professional learning. And I took the leap, to move out of public education. And I just, I still, I’m still in it, I’m really in it. But I’m able to able to be a partner alongside so many folks who have a vision for coaching the way that I’ve coached, or that I’m still looking to coach as I move forward. And it’s just really exciting work. And I learn every single day and, and people get excited about it. Because it’s a tool that, you know, they’re like, where has this been all my life? And I’m like, yeah, right, you get it? And then let me tell you what else it can do. Right? So it’s definitely one of those tools. I mean, when you think about reflecting on your coaching impact, all I have to do is pull up my analytics and my engagement in my in my account, and all the numbers are crunched again, I don’t want to do a lot of math. I’m able to look at that and my calendar, and I can then start reflecting from there. So yeah, that’s

buzzing with ms b  43:27

great. Well, fantastic. I love it. Well, thank you so much for being here today. And how can people find you online if they’re looking to learn more from you?

Cory Camp  43:35

Yeah. So I want to direct everyone to Sibme.com, again, it stands for seeing is believing me.com. That’s where you can find so much about the company. I work for the platform, our virtual coaching services, my services that I offer, where you can also find more about our show, we’ve got a web show and a podcast that releases new episodes every Friday, Chrissy was just on it not too long ago. So yeah, it was a lot of fun. So the coach replay show was sponsored by Sibme and we’ve got again a podcast version of that if you’re a listener, or if you want to watch we have our YouTube channel. We also have our Learning Center where I’ve developed several courses around different professional learning models and the use of video and other transformative tools. So look for me there you’ll find my Twitter handle and all of those things. Sibme.com

buzzing with ms b  44:35

Awesome. Thank you. Thank you for being here. This was great.

Cory Camp  44:39

Yeah, yeah, now I’m gonna go search online for more friends for like grab lunch today. It’s perfect. Seriously, though, if anybody finder’s fee I’ll happily pay it. Find me a fringe jacket. Just say all right.

buzzing with ms b  44:54

You’ve got your marching orders. Mission now?

Cory Camp  44:58

Yes, and in cinema Ways in my way. All right. Thanks so much for having me. Yeah, thank you. Yeah.

buzzing with ms b  45:08

I always love talking with Cory, whether it’s about fringe, or about coaching. And I feel like there was so much great information here that you can really apply in your thinking about how your coaching work is actually impacting teachers, and how you want to use that to frame your work for the rest of this year. And for next year, I actually have a free document for you, you can go to buzzing with the speed.com/episode 144 and scroll to the bottom to grab the reflecting on your coaching work guide. And it’s got a few different questions there that are going to help you think about the kind of work that you’re doing and how you can make some adjustments for the future. I also have a resource that that Corey got a little like hinted out a little bit. During our conversation today, we were talking about using surveys in kind of getting feedback from teachers that way figuring out your impact. And I have a resource for you, that actually includes a bundle of two surveys for teachers that you can use as a coach. So if you go to my TPT store buzzing with Ms b.com, you can search for Christie Beltran on Teachers Pay Teachers and I’ll pop up. And then you’re looking for the teacher feedback surveys and forms that is going to give you a ton of different forms that you can use to figure out how your coaching work is impacting your teachers, and also to get an idea of what they’d like to work on. Next week, like I mentioned, we’re talking about what to do when you kind of realize that you’re not spending time on the things that are going to produce the best results and make the most impact. I’m gonna give you specific actions you can take to change what’s happening in your coaching work and where you’re spending your time. So I look forward to sharing that with you next week. And until then, happy coaching

buzzing with ms b  46:49

Thank you for listening to buzzing with Miss B the coaching podcast. What more coaching ideas, check me out at buzzing with Ms. b.com and on Instagram at buzzing with Miss B. If you love the show, share it with a coach who would love it too. Or leave me a review on iTunes. It’s free and it helps others find this show. Happy coaching


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