Supporting Highly Effective Strategies in Math: What Should We Be Building? With Kristen Acosta , ep. 190

Supporting Highly Effective Strategies in Math: What Should We Be Building? With Kristen Acosta , ep. 190, Instructional Coaching with Ms. B Podcast

Chrissy Beltran  00:00

Coach, I know you’re trying to figure this all out on your own. You’re investing in your own learning on your own time because you want to show up for your teachers in the best way possible. Building your coaching program is a huge challenge. And it’s even more difficult when you’re asked to know about literacy practices and how to support them. That’s why I created the Confident Literacy Coach. This self paced course gives you the knowledge strategies, processes, and downloadable tools that you need to be competent in your coaching work every single day. The new update to the reading and writing modules includes information about literacy that will help you grow your skills practices, and grow your students into skilled readers and writers. Check it out at confident literacy coach.com And stop reinventing the wheel.

Chrissy Beltran  00:40

Have you felt like you’ve provided all the PD, you facilitated all the PLCs and you’ve had all the conversations, but your teachers are still stuck. If your teachers are resistant to instructional change or having trouble implementing new things, it might look something like this. They’re still using outdated practices that we know don’t work. They fight every PLC to claim to their favorite lessons or strategies. You see evidence of for instructional methods everywhere despite having provided tons of PD and better practices. And kids aren’t learning and the same kids are at the bottom of the data chart every single time. Does this sound familiar? To literacy coaches who are committed to helping students grow as readers and writers This is especially frustrating. That’s why I created a free webinar for literacy coaches, but really any coach can value from it. It’s all about helping teachers embrace new practices and try out something new even when they’re not excited about it. We’ll learn why teachers resist change, how to help teachers feel secure and ready to try something new. And my favorite strategies and methods to encourage choice while expecting and holding them accountable for trying new things. I’m so excited to share this information with you that I created a free download that you’ll get when you grab the free pre recorded webinar at buzzing with Miss b.com slash shift. Grab it today. It’s totally free and it will make such a difference in your coaching.

Chrissy Beltran  02:03

Welcome to instructional coaching with Miss B where we believe that every teacher deserves a coach and every coach does too. I’m Chrissy Beltran, an elementary teacher who became a coach, and I had to create my own coaching program that worked. Now I teach coaches how to design their coaching programs, build a school wide action plan and use differentiated strategies to support teachers. Plus, I’ve got a special spot in my heart for literacy coaches. Now let’s dig into the episode.

Chrissy Beltran  02:30

Hey, coach, and welcome to episode 190 of instructional coaching with Miss B. Today, the episode is all about supporting highly effective practices in math with my guest Kristin Acosta. Before we get started, I wanted to remind you a little bit of the series that we’ve been working on, which is best practices in schools. So the last several episodes have been about the kinds of practices that we want to make sure that we are growing, and our schools to make sure that our kids are really learning. So we talked a little bit about what some successful schools are doing what rigor looks like how we can support highly effective strategies and literacy with SLR, and why all coaches are needing literacy content knowledge about reading and writing, because we need to be reading and writing across the curriculum. So those are the last episodes that started back in episode 186. If you want to go back and catch the beginning of this series, this is the last episode in the best practices in schools series. So before we get started, I wanted to tell you about a free download that will help you do some of the work that we’re going to talk about today. It’s my digging into data guide. This guide will help you look at data with your teachers to support your planning. And then from there, you can use the PLC planning forms and agenda to actually plan together to implement some of the things that you talked about when you looked at your data. So definitely check out those links. If you go to buzzing with Miss b.com slash episode 190. You can access the links to those because that is the link for the show notes buzzing with Miss b.com slash episode 190. So you can grab the show notes there, you can find out a little bit more about Kristin, you can see some of the highlights of our conversation. And you can also grab some information that would be helpful for you as you’re trying to implement this at your school, grab the free download the digging into data guide. And you’ll be able to do all of these things with your teachers. We are going to welcome Kristin to the podcast and I’m so excited to have her as a guest today. So welcome Kristen to the podcast today.

Kristen Acosta  04:27

Thank you, Chrissy. It’s a pleasure to be here. Thank you so much for the invite.

Chrissy Beltran  04:31

Oh, definitely well as I would love for you to introduce yourself to our listeners. So as a quick way to introduce yourself, I want to hear about three things. Okay. I’m gonna wanna hear about who do you help and how do you spend most of your time and energy at work? And what is your favorite TV show of all time? Those are the three things that I want to hear. Okay,

Kristen Acosta  04:50

so who do I help? Okay, so you can kind of see I’ve been an educator as specifically a math educator for over 25 years. Kind of currently. I started off with middle school taught middle school math for about 14 years. I was a district math coach for a few years. And then I transitioned into becoming a sixth grade elementary teacher, currently, that I’ve been doing for about seven or eight years or so. So by day, I’m a teacher. But I’m gonna say by night, but I’m also i, that’s why I describe myself as a math educator, because it conferences, so much more. I go out and do trainings, I speak at conferences. I’m an author, I’ve written a book, so I kind of like a hodgepodge of things. You know, I don’t like to limit myself to saying just the teacher because that we’re just as so belittling, literally some brands, so I kind of call myself a math educator, because I wear a lot of hats, and, uh, depending on, you know, time of day, and sometimes the, you know, the week or whatever, so, so that’s pretty much what I do. Math is my jam, man does what I do, yeah. Awesome.

Chrissy Beltran  06:06

All right, and what is your favorite TV show of all time?

Kristen Acosta  06:10

Can I say how much I love this question. So my favorite TV show, and I was Maron, this was mentioning me, but I have to say 30 rock? Oh, that’s a good one. Because Tina Fey if I always played this game, like who if they made a movie about your life? Who would play you? And I said, Tina Fey got my sense of humor. I just, she is so spot on. She’s funny, but she’s like, smart, funny, you know. And just and that was a TV show that I that resonated with me, because there were so many jokes, going practically like a mile a minute, it was fabulous. And then the whole premise was just funny. And you had to really pay attention because the jokes were coming at you in all different ways or whatever. So it’s one Yeah, 30 rock, for sure. Is one of my all time faves.

Chrissy Beltran  07:05

That’s a great one. That’s it’s worth rewatching there’s lots of like you said, there’s something on you can always find something new to appreciate. Yeah,

Kristen Acosta  07:11

yeah, absolutely. So yeah, I just because I’m a big Tina Fey fan love, love her sense of humor. And like I said, smart. Funny thing. I like that. Yeah.

Chrissy Beltran  07:21

Awesome. Well, thank you for sharing about that. Yeah, I’m sure somebody’s going to add that to their watch list if they don’t already have it. And I would love to dig in to kind of an overview of what it is that we’re trying to do when we’re teaching math in pre K through 12. Schools. So what exactly are we trying to build in students by the time they leave our school?

Kristen Acosta  07:41

Um, I think a couple of things, some educators out there will say, Oh, we want them to get a joy of math. And I don’t think I think that’s a pretty far reaching goal. So um, it’s so my two answers for that are going to be I want them to obtain a, of course, number sense. And I think for especially K through I’m gonna say even extended to eight, just figuring out how the numbers work. How are they related? There’s interconnectedness, like what is that? That’s, I think, one of our, you know, goals as educators for sure. The other goal is kind of like a subjective is, is, again, kind of finding the joy in math. And I’m not saying that, you know, everybody needs to love it as much as I do. But what I do want is them to enjoy it with the experiences that I put together, I want them to be able to apply the math that they’re learning, not necessarily using the textbook page 47, because I think that kills the joy of math, I think it dulls it down. So by certain experiences, whether it be games, whether it be you know, different types of routines, you just have an appreciation for math, you know, I basically just don’t want them walking away hating it. Because the reason why kids think they are bad at math, and I’m putting full quotes on that. Everybody’s a math person, however, do they have negative feelings because of certain experiences? I believe I’m a true believer. I think that’s what really happened. And I think usually those kids or even some adults that say, I’m bad at math, can tell you a story, whether Oh, in second grade, this happened in third grade this step and so on. So I’m not saying that everybody has to be happy go lucky. And you know, hey, we all love math. Yes, yes, we’re all but just have an appreciation for it. And kind of embrace it. And I mean, no matter what we do live in mathematize. worlds we do use it. In some math, we’re going to use more than others. However, just just have an appreciation for it not necessarily love, just an appreciation for it. So I think that would be our best two bets, number sense and an appreciation for math. Yeah,

Chrissy Beltran  10:17

I think those are really important numbers, since it’s enormous, because it’s literally in every part of your day, if you can understand how numbers work and how they relate, and how these math concepts are relevant. It’s you can find it everywhere like going I mean, it’s an obvious thing. Everybody uses them to go into the grocery store. I do know people who cannot do the mental math, just estimate what’s in the cart, you know, and that is something that I mean, we failed. If we had kids doing long division was like memorizing all these, you know, acronyms, but not understanding how to, you know, manipulate some numbers to figure out how to add them up, you know? Yeah, yeah.

Kristen Acosta  10:55

I 100% agree. I’ll tell you very quick story of how this applies. And I’m going to date myself here. I was in Circuit City, can you believe I said Circuit City, circuit cities were going out of business. So of course, they had these ginormous sales. And this is kind of ironic. I was buying DVDs. I think I was buying the 30 rock DVD. So see how it comes. And it you know, the sticker price said, I think it was like 40% off. And I don’t remember the exact percent and whatever. So I get up there. And they say, it’s going to be I forget what the price was going to be. And I was going, and I’m sitting there doing my math. And there’s a line of people behind me. I’m like, No, that’s not right. And the cashier looks at me like, Well, no, that’s what the price says. And I said, No, no, that’s right. So I pull out, not a calculator, but we all have our cell phones and stuff. So and I hear the people behind me, oh, she’s pulling out the calculator. And I’m like, Yeah, cuz I know how to do the math for this. And wherever. So I’m showing the cashier look 40% of whatever the price is, is supposed to be this, which is like, at least a couple of bucks lower than what they were quoting me. So they, so they’re like, Okay, that’s fine. And they put in a price. And then I looked at the price again, and it said, it was even, like, they gave me a percentage higher than 40%. Give me like, 50%. Now, that’s at the time, I wasn’t going to complain. I’m like, oh, that’s, that’s the price you want to give me. But I’m just trying to show you the math, you know, so it’s in, you know, especially in consumer, as a consumer, I want to make sure that your math is correct or whatever. So, but I remember the comments behind the line, oh, she’s taken out her calculus Oh, I am, you might be smart to check your math too. So

Chrissy Beltran  12:43

they’re gonna overcharge you, and then you get to the front of the line. So it’s important to

Kristen Acosta  12:47

know, like, one of the big things I share with my kids is, hey, guys, when it says buy one, get one free, there’s nothing free. Let me show you how the math works out. And the dejected kind of looks on their faces. They’re like, Oh, man, I’m like, now you’re just you’re buying it at a smaller price, but it’s not really free, you’re having to pay for something, you know, oh, that gets them every time. But it’s important to kind of just, you know, again, have an awareness of the math around you. And that’s a that’s one of the reasons just as a consumer, why you should understand how the math works. Yes,

Chrissy Beltran  13:26

my husband will hand me the receipt at the end of a meal because he will not calculate the tip. He just won’t do and I told him, we’ll just you know, we’re just gonna do 20% standard, let’s that’s just how we’re gonna live. Right? So let’s just, you know, I even just to simplify it, I was like, just just move it over. And double this digit. Now. He will not do it. He just hands me their feet. And so yeah, I feel like whenever a lot of math whenever I was young, was taught by memorization. And if I didn’t, it didn’t make sense to me. I couldn’t remember it. That was just how my brain works. So then it didn’t mean anything to me all this you know, father, mother, sister, I still don’t remember how I can do long division. But I can’t tell you the little things that I was supposed to

Kristen Acosta  14:07

pneumonic device. Yes. That they were any sing songs or whatever.

Chrissy Beltran  14:11

Yeah, I mean, songs and things I think are helpful after you understand what you’re doing. When you don’t understand what you’re doing. Right.

Kristen Acosta  14:18

You have to understand the bigger picture. And then, you know, then you show the shortcuts and stuff. Yeah, 100% are great. Okay, great.

Chrissy Beltran  14:25

So then that’s what I would like to know is like keeping those things in mind. What does a really great math classroom look like that will help people build these things? I

Kristen Acosta  14:34

love this question because it’s something that in my work outside of my classroom, I’m finding that that we need to have a discussion about the difference between standards, textbook and curriculum that they are I think so many times textbook is a automatically curriculum. And that’s not true. Your guideline, as a teacher, your guideline, and your real pacing guide is those standards, that’s what needs to be taught. Because then when the kids, you know, go on to the next grade level, they have that foundation and like, say, a second grade, so they’re ready to go on, you know, and so we can build their base knowledge. A textbook is a tool used to help teach math. But I think so many times I’ve seen it, and absorbed myself. And I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with it. But you know, textbooks are just a tool. And so the kids are just, you know, going to the next page, page 47, page 48. Sometimes that doesn’t give them necessarily, number sense, and paint a bigger picture of the mathematics. And I’ve got an example to show you in a second. Whereas curriculum curriculum is using, for instance, a textbook along with all kinds of experiences, hands on manipulatives, games, you name it, to teach that unit to teach that topic, standard, whatever you want to call, kind of thing. So when you asked me what a great classroom looks like, I see. And I’m, I’m going to speak on curriculum, I see curriculum being built with manipulatives, with children, talking about the math, exploring the math, they’re doing hands on activities, I’m known for something called clothesline math where the kids are constantly, you know, revising and moving numbers around you bringing that standard of like, or that tool of a number line to life. I see kids applying what they learned. And whatever strategies to applications. For instance, the React tasks are a great visual, I call them visual performance tests, where they get one problem and, you know, get a little bit of information. And then the third act is usually, you know, the big answer, but they need to figure out what strategies to get from A to B to C. So there are lots of ways just performance tests. In general, there’s so many different ways of applying what they know, and putting their knowledge to work. So like all that is a great math classroom should have a balance of a little bit of everything, a little bit conceptual, direct instruction, you know, yes, it’s okay to do some paperwork, but Okay, give them experiences that they’re going to apply their knowledge, when you know, because there’s a lot of different ways to show me what you know. And sometimes not all kids are test takers. So I’d rather them, you know, doing the rest of these activities, tasks, whatever you want to call them, that are going to be applicable to what we’re doing and what we’re teaching, or learning, I should say. So that’s what I think you know, so I always think that math is about verbs. It’s shouldn’t be a passive subject. Like I keep referring to just turning pages in the textbook or workbook, I think it should be about talking about observing about making connections, about playing. I think that word is so de emphasized when kids grow up, have no, when we play, we don’t have any inhibitions. We’re just, you know, we’re just exploring technically. And sometimes that kind of goes away. So some of the projects I do with my own students, I said, they said, alright, what are my directions? What do I need to do? I said, just play. And they look at me, like, I’m crazy. But then by day three, and four, it’s like, they get it, you know, that kind of thing. But that first day, I gotta let them struggle, because they’re so not used to, you know, my hands or my hands are free, and I’m more of a facilitator. I’m not going to tell you how to do it. You need to go explore and figure it out kind of thing. And I think that when I do stuff like that, it takes the pressure off of trying to teach calculator kids. Those are the kids that can do the algorithms real fast and do all the calculations real fast. So they think automatically, they’re good at math. And I said, I don’t teach calculators, or I like to teach problem solvers. And so by taking you know, some of these directions away and becoming a facilitator and saying, Go ahead, guys figure it out. They do. They do extremely well. I think some of the ones that don’t think they are as good as math as the others, all of a sudden We’ll include it. And because I believe every kid has a math idea, every kid has a math ideas, and we need to embrace that. So all those components, I believe, make a really great math classroom.

Chrissy Beltran  20:13

So then in order to do this kind of teaching, what are some of the components that we need to include in our math instruction, you know, every day or every week? What are the things we need to be doing?

Kristen Acosta  20:23

It’s hard to say like every day, because there are some things, for instance, I’ve referenced clothesline math, it’s a three dimensional number line. I tell teachers, when I do trainings on it, I say, don’t use it every day, because the novelty wears off. I might use it every day for a unit that I teach in my grade level, because it’s, it’s irrelevant, you know, I’ve turned the clothesline into a ratio table, and the kids are finding percents, like I said, and kind of like a double number line. So we’re constantly bringing it out and manipulating it. So of course, that makes sense. Now, do I need to do it every day? If I’m a fourth grade teacher? No, not necessarily, but where it best fits? And I, I don’t like to say, Oh, do it on day two, or do it because you know, your kids, you know, your your standards and what you’re supposed to teach. So it but definitely, I think we need to be more visual. I think we need to be more kinesthetic, I think and having having the kids talk about what they’re seeing, and what they’re observing and what questions they have. Because I believe some other math educators of mine said, if you’re not able, I think it was Graham Fletcher, that said, if you’re not able to talk about it, they’re not going to be able to write it. So and that’s an essential component, when it comes to, you know, the big state tests and stuff, you’re supposed to be writing about what you’re observing, and not just giving directions of first, I multiply two times three, and then I carried the one and so you know, someone. So I’m just like, again, a well balanced program, a well balanced, I go back to that word curriculum. I think, you know, but with Les with, you know, conversation with, you know, some physical learning. And I’m not saying we need to be jumping out of our seats every single day, but when, when there’s a time in the place, you know, that kind of thing. So that’s what I see, are the essential components.

Chrissy Beltran  22:21

Okay, so what are some of these instructional practices that you’ve mentioned, that we should be moving away from? You mentioned a couple of things, and then some that we should be moving toward? instead? No,

Kristen Acosta  22:32

great question. Um, I think teachers are sometimes get frustrated with, whether it be what the textbook shows them how to teach something, and they just want to jump straight to the algorithm. And I always say, you know, be patient, give time, you know, let, and then it like, the very last minute, here’s the algorithm, here’s the shortcut kind of thing. I think we need to stop telling the students what math they shouldn’t be seeing. And instead, give them space, and a safe learning environment that they’re going to tell us the math that they’re seeing. So for instance, another routine I do is just like showing pictures, sometimes they’re called number talk images. And I’ll just put up Majan, like, you know, a stack of sodas in boxes, or whatever. So I might show that and say, you know, what do you notice? What do you wonder, and they just and they love the notice and wonder, because everybody could tell me what they’re seeing. And everybody can tell me what questions they might have. And it’s very inclusive. So and you would be surprised at what they come up with their, you know, children are capable of such magnificent ideas, but we need to give them that space. So instead of telling them what they should be seeing, I kind of sit back and go. Let me give you your space. What do you think my quick antidote to that is, I printed up a picture of what you and I might look like as a four leaf clover. And I showed it to a five year old in kindergarten because I was doing some intervention, years back. And I said, you know, honey, what picture what do you think this picture represents? And she said, and I went, Okay, well, explain yourself. I don’t like to jump down their throat. No, it’s for the four leaf clover. What are you talking about? She goes, No, I see. Eight halves. And I thought that was just extraordinary. For such a little person. I call them the little people down there and kindergarten first grade. She said no, I see eight halves. I wouldn’t have been able to see that knowledge if I hadn’t shown her just something simple as that picture. Obviously, this child has some kind of knowledge Some kind of, I’m gonna say beginning understandings of fractions, which four or five years old is pretty extraordinary. So I think giving students some space. But when you give them space, you got to give them opportunities to, for them to show you show what they know, whether it be just pictures or however assessment or activity task you have, you know, give them the space, give them the space to, you know, and allow them to, you know, respond. Yeah, I

Chrissy Beltran  25:29

agree. That’s actually very similar to the way that I taught math in my own classroom when I was a classroom teacher. Yeah, I would start out with notice and observe and what do you see, and then we would make connections back to that throughout the unit that we’re working on. And I was whenever I became a coach, then I tried to share certain things with teachers, it’s different ways of looking at things that was absolutely baffling to so many teachers. And I wonder, part of it is I think that they didn’t understand that it’s okay, that not all the kids are going to say, the thing that you’re teaching that day. They’re not all going to observe that and that’s okay. They just see the answer, you know. And the other thing is, I think that teachers just like in teaching, writing, I see it a lot in teaching writing, because they don’t consider themselves good at that. They don’t, they don’t go off the beaten path. And the textbook is comforting, because it tells you what to do next. And so they are very uncomfortable. I can remember working with a teacher once and I was teaching him how to represent division with manipulatives, with base 10. And he said, But what about what did he say? What do you do when you have some leftover? And he didn’t he was how do you know when you’re done? Because you still have some left? I said, Well, we can’t divide it any further. That’s the remainder. That’s what remains after you’re done. Dividing as much as you can see, these little pieces don’t fit into any little group. So you know, depending on what your units are, you would have to decide to do with what to do with those. And he, oh, but it just he goes I tried to do it with my students. But I couldn’t think we didn’t know what to do. How do you know when you’re done? He said he couldn’t. The end, the kids, he and the kids are staring at each other looking at these leftover units, and not sure what to do with them. And he because he wasn’t coming. He didn’t try it, which I give him amazing points for that. But I you know, because he was uncomfortable with it, I don’t know how likely he would have been to do that, again, if he didn’t have somebody to come back and say, Now what do I do? You know, and so I feel like a lot of teachers, they don’t have a comfort level with math that gives them this freedom to play with it with students and still get where they’re going. That’s

Kristen Acosta  27:42

why I’m a big proponent for having coaches, in the districts in the schools and the buildings, every district all over the United States in the states do it differently. So that’s why I put a bunch of words out there specialists toeses, teachers on special assignment, whatever you want to call them. big proponent of that. And I’m surprised that especially after the whole COVID situation that more more districts weren’t seeing that, alright, kids kind of took a dip with math because, again, we weren’t able to play, we weren’t able to experience where we just did the best we could. And same with me just did the best we could. But we I missed that physical component. And that was a shame. But I think when you have a coach that says that’s standing side by side with you, and you’re learning together, hey, this really worked. You know what, we need to work on this, what do you think, and you have somebody that you trust, and that you could process? What’s going on? I think you feel a little bit more comfortable about just trying, I think teachers need that. Like I said, need that coach, just to kind of help them out. Because to try this stuff on your own could be a very daunting type of experience. Because you’re not sure if you’re doing it well, you’re not sure you know, it’s just the way it’s supposed to go? I don’t know. Great. So sometimes we kind of fall back to what we know and the routine and the textbook or you know, whatever they do. So that’s why I’m, like I said, a big proponent of just having help some way shape or form. Maybe it’s an instructional coach or whatever. But because I think then you’re able to kind of push your own practices a little bit more, and you have somebody side by side to kind of help you with that.

Chrissy Beltran  29:32

Yeah, I totally agree with that. Whenever I was a teacher, I mean, obviously a German instructional coach, but beyond that, I also agree, because when I was a teacher, the only reason I was able to to because my first year of teaching, I taught what I knew about math, which is the way I had been taught, right. So a lot of it was very rote. And I didn’t I was I would try to explain certain things, but I couldn’t really model it in a way that was effective. And so the reason that I was able to do Whew, differently over time is because I had support and I had somebody who said, Look, this is what it looks like, when you’re doing this with fractions, this is what’s actually happening, let’s get off a little fraction pieces and a little fraction buys. And we’re gonna, you know, and by seeing this happen in real time, everything suddenly was like, and it just made sense. And after that, I completely changed the way that I taught math, everything came together for me conceptually, because I had not been taught conceptually. Everything was paper pencil, and, you know, just do this to this to this. And so I feel like making that shift, I had to have a another human person to help me, you know, learn as the adult, and it’s okay to have to learn things as an adult, because we know what we’ve been taught, and what we’ve been exposed to. And it’s okay to not know how things work, because you just haven’t, how would you know, if you hadn’t spent real time thinking about it? And who spends real time thinking about it, when they just tell you, we’ll just do this? Right? Yeah, correct. And we have to accept that. Yeah.

Kristen Acosta  31:02

And that’s why I feel like, even though it teach more than middle grades, I’m very fluent in the K through six all the way to eight standards, because I like to know where they come from, versus where are they going, you know, I like I said, In the beginning, my career started off with a seventh and eighth grade teacher, and it was a lot more pre algebra kind of stuff, or whatever. But now I have even a greater appreciation in sixth grade, your sixth grade teacher of where they’ve gone. So I’ll tell you know, some of my colleagues, kindergarten, first grade, whoever, this is really important, make sure you focus on this, this is really important, go use 100 chart, because that’s going to help me blah, blah, blah, blah, and so on. I’ve even, you know, taken some kindergarten stuff, and used it in my sixth grade classroom, and the kids were like, what, and I’m like, Well, you guys are learning this. So I decided to use this routine. So it’s, like I said, there’s a greater bigger picture of why we all should be, you know, teaching to the standards, because I know that helps me when it comes to the middle grades. I know where they’re going when they get to, you know, middle school or junior high, whatever you want to call it. Anyway, so I think it’s really nice that, that some people can be well versed in the standards of where they’ve been versus where they’re going. Yeah.

Chrissy Beltran  32:24

So the math actually leads me to this question about, you know, digging through all of these massive amounts of standards, because teachers have honestly more to teach in a year than they can teach in the year. Yeah. And so sometimes you have to say, I’m going to really invest time here. And I’m not going to invest as much time here, because of many different reasons, right? Maybe this is something they’re going to invest a whole lot of time in next year. And so I don’t have to make sure they master that. Or this is just introductory or whatever. So how can an instructional coach help teachers dig through these standards and curriculum, kind of like you’re talking about, figure out what kinds of lessons they want to include and where to focus and where to spend their time, at different levels? What could that process look like? Well,

Kristen Acosta  33:09

I’m a big proponent. And I’m not saying it happens very often. But I’m a big proponent of articulation meetings, of making sure that all the grade levels are talking to each other, of making sure like someone’s looking at the standards and going, Okay, let’s just focus on the numbers, not number since number systems is that I was like, I know, it’s called an S and I’m going okay, I’m getting all my acronyms mixed up. Let’s just focus on number systems or whatever. What does that what does that look like? And so basically do it by domain, what does that look like in kindergarten was that, you know, maybe do something like that. And I always think I’m the kind of person I like to see the bigger picture and see the whole, you know, interconnectedness of the standards. Versus I know, and then I figured out, okay, I need to do A, B, and C in order to get there. Some people just give me my standards, that’s what I’m going to teach. But I like to kind of see, like, the vertical alignment, where they’ve been, where they need to go, and what’s my job in this whole bigger picture kind of thing. So I I’m a big proponent for articulation meetings. I think, too many times, though, they’re not happening. And I just don’t know if people know what to do. I mean, let’s face it, teachers have a lot on their plates right now. There are some districts and the work that they do or the priorities that they are given is really all dependent on the higher ups, you know, people working in the district. If they’re not, well, I guess if math is not a part of them, all this work that we’re talking about is not going to happen yet. So it’s which really, you know, like hurts my soul when I hear stuff like that and you know, So we hope, but yeah, articulation, the vertical alignment. I think that’s, that’s the key. And just, you know, keeping up with the conversation of what works, what doesn’t, hey, I tried this routine, you guys should try it and third grader really, hey, you guys shouldn’t you know and so on. So, because, again, we’re here to teach number sense we’re here to teach them at least some enjoyment of math kind of thing. Yeah. So

Chrissy Beltran  35:26

it’s, it’s part of those conversations, are you using data to help teachers drive their instruction in math? And, you know, what should coaches be thinking about as they’re looking at math assessments and data with teachers?

Kristen Acosta  35:38

Oh, wow, that’s a humdinger of a question. And I wish I had lightning in a bottle. But I don’t I mean, yeah, we do a lot of data collecting. I don’t know, how much is, was, and I’m sorry, you’re gonna have to edit? Because I’m trying to find my words. I don’t know how much time is being spent on analyzing the debt data? And if it is, being looked at, analyzed, talked about, what’s the follow through?

Chrissy Beltran  36:17

Totally agree,

Kristen Acosta  36:19

what’s the follow through that’s going on? And are there any changes going on? Or, you know, like, Okay, well, we didn’t do so well in this. So we need to, you know, do better this year, you know, again, in building those experiences within the curriculum. So, that’s what I’m gonna think, I think the follow through, or the follow up, is usually what’s hurting.

Chrissy Beltran  36:46

I totally agree. We, we spend time, you know, so many times, schools look at numbers, that information in data form, and then teachers feel sort of awful. And then everybody goes back to their classroom. And nothing changes as a result of that. And it’s kind of like, well, that was not super effective. It didn’t result in any change in instruction in classroom. And in even, I mean, even at the school level in professional development opportunities, what do our teachers need to learn to be able to do this, because that information, tells you what those kids demonstrated, you know, on that day in that format, obviously, it’s not all inclusive. But maybe the teacher needs to learn something to help the kids be able to do that, in that way in that format. So we, as coaches, we can look at that information at multiple levels in terms of what students can do and what teachers are, what their knowledge bases.

Kristen Acosta  37:42

Yeah, that’s been, you said the word professional development. And that’s been like a trigger for me, because I’ve been doing a lot of writing my blog posts on my website about what is effective. You know, what are we doing when it comes to professional development, you know, I, and the professional development that teachers get is going to be solely based on the needs of the kids. Now, what gets lost in translation, I believe, is that we see the need, and we’re going, Hey, we need help in A, B, and C. But then the districts and the administrators might have different priorities and go, Well, no, we’re going to do X, Y, and Z. And you’re going, Well, wait a minute. So I feel like that teachers are just privy to whatever the district admin either can do, or is capable of, or whatever their priority is. And I think sometimes there’s a gap between what they think the priority is and what the real need is. So for instance, so when I go off, and I’ll provide PD, and you know, during break time, I’ll sit next to the teachers and go so, so what’s going on, you know, so let me get the real story, so that I can plan, you know, for the next hour, and whatever, like, let me let me listen to you. Because you guys are on, you know, as I say, the front lines and stuff, that’s, I want to I want to help you, instead of just being Oh, we did math PD there, we check off our list, you know, yeah.

Chrissy Beltran  39:21

Yeah, totally. I agree with that. We have to know when we’re looking at data, for example, we have to know what it means and what we’re looking at, and we need context for that. And that’s why if you’re not visiting classrooms, as an instructional coach, I don’t know how you have context for what those numbers mean, you know, because there can be a lot of reasons for numbers coming out in the exact same way in different classrooms. You know, and it might be two completely different reasons. And so we have to kind of, I think that that’s one thing that sometimes, campus coaches are deterred from just visiting classrooms to be part of In the classroom or to see how things are going. But if you don’t have context for the teaching and learning on your campus, I don’t know how effective you can be in supporting teachers in thinking about the practice, exam and the whole scale the school level, you know, right. So so yeah, I think that that’s context is important when we’re looking at assessments, I think, when we look at data, we need, like you said, have an action plan of what this means for our teaching. And it needs to be realistic, and it needs to be created during that time, when you look at the data. I know, I’ve sat in data meetings where there are actually, you know, we did like different kinds of ways of breaking down the data when I was a teacher. And then they’d say, Okay, go make your plan, and then like, email it to us. And that didn’t seem super, I mean, I was I already was gonna had a plan. You know, and I often had looked at my data myself, it wasn’t like shocking to see what what information they were going to share. But many teachers needed support in making that plan and making that adjustments. Because if they could have responded to the data in a different way, they probably would have already been doing that. And so what we can do is have two people model for each other. What do you do? What does it look like? How did you do this? What does you know, we have to collaborate around these conversations about data in order to grow everybody in the room and elevate the conversation, you know,

Kristen Acosta  41:18

when we’re looking at data, and analyzing all these numbers, I think sometimes what gets misplaced or forgotten about is like the human factor. And that’s why I, I don’t like, brush, all this pressure with the test kids are, I think, tested and assessed, like, way too much. Because it’s unfair, that one, you know, I’ve been reading more about like trauma, and, you know, trying to learn when you’ve had trauma, but to that one day that they’re testing, we’re putting all the eggs in the basket, and maybe their grandmother passed away the night before maybe their mom was in the hospital, maybe what? So, you know, to sit down and go, Oh, look, you know, Mrs. Costa, you didn’t teach percentages, correct, or whatever, you know, look at this kid, and I’m going, oh, you know, that human factors, what I perceive some educators and I’m just putting a generalization sometimes forget about. So whereas I know, through the various experiences that I referred to earlier in my curriculum, that they did make growth. So. So that’s why I can’t say I put all my eggs in the basket, when it comes to data, it’s, you know, I refer to it, of course, I refer to it, but that human factor is what’s being missed. And, you know, these kids are not just a bunch of little robots that we’re programming. You know, they’re humans, they have feelings, they have lives, you know, things happen to them, they’ve probably sometimes seen or heard things and experienced things that I’ve never experienced myself, whether they’ve been good, bad or ugly. So I think we need to embrace you know, the humaneness of these kids versus, you know, seeing them with little scores above their heads, you know, like, you’re proficient, you’re, you know, that kind of thing. So, that, so, hence, you know, it’s important to look at data. But I believe we need to remember that these are little people, you know, things are happening. And the priority might not be, you know, scoring on this test are especially the big tests that we all look at. So, I don’t know, that’s just my two cents.

Chrissy Beltran  43:44

I do agree. I think that a part of that is some of the data that we’re looking at and needs to not be just ended your cumulative, you know, at least summative assessments, that is not going to tell us as much as every single day. As the kinds of things that you can see your kids do, I think we need to look at student work together with teachers, we need to look at artifacts, actually, what did kids do whenever they did, what does that look like? Filling in a bubble sheet does not tell me as much as looking at something where student wrote and Drew and explained. And that’s the kind of those are the kinds of pieces that we can really look at and dig in together and get an understanding of what’s happening.

Kristen Acosta  44:24

Right. There’s a lot of different ways to show me what you know, there’s a lot of different ways and it doesn’t equate to automatically a test every single time. So, you know, I’m more of a proponent of the whole child, you know, and whatever way I could, you know, like, I keep referring to building a curriculum that will give me a little bit of an insight of, Hey, did you you know, pick up anything from what I just taught you with this standard? Then I’m all for it kind of thing, but there’s just a lot of different ways to show me what you know, and one test doesn’t necessarily equate to What you really know? Yes,

Chrissy Beltran  45:01

totally agree. Well, thank you so much for being here today. Kristen, how can people learn more from you?

Kristen Acosta  45:07

I have a website called Kristen Acosta.com. That’s probably the best main way to get a hold of me on what was known as Twitter X, Kristin M. Acosta, I have an Instagram account where I put up a lot of images. Kristen Acosta, math. But mostly if you need to email me or get a hold of me whenever I constantly am checking my website and stuff, and that’s where I get my emails from. I guess my email address is the Kristen acosta@gmail.com.

Chrissy Beltran  45:41

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for sharing your expertise. You’re welcome, Christina.

Kristen Acosta  45:45

The pleasure has been all mine. Thank you for the invite. Again, I appreciate that.

Chrissy Beltran  45:49

All right, Coach, I hope that gave you some things to think about whether you are a math focused coach or a general instructional coach. And honestly, even if you are focused on literacy, I think it’s helpful to understand what’s going on in other content areas, because we can really support teachers in thinking about how literacy can be supportive of their, their content, actually, that last episode did was all about that. So you can check that out, and episode 189. Remember, you can grab that digging into data guide at buzzing with this b.com slash episode, 190. You can also check out all the links that are there from this episode in the show notes at that link. And I would really recommend that if you’re looking for a resource to help you do some of this work and talk about some of these things with your teachers. You had to buzzing with Miss b.com and you go to the shop. And then you’re gonna want to look for the PLC forms toolkit. The PLC PLC forms toolkit bundle includes resources to do so many of the things that Kristin and I just spoke about, which is you know, looking at data with some context, looking at how teachers are teaching different things, learning about your standards and unpacking them understanding what comes before and what comes after. And looking at student work, which is probably my favorite one. Because I think it’s so underrated and so valuable. So check out that PLC forms toolkit, it has agendas, it has forms and printables and guides things you can use with your teachers to make your PLC meetings really pop if you are focusing on really any kind of learning that your teachers need to do together. Next week, we are going to start our brand new focus and it’s going to be all about school leadership. So in the next few episodes, we’re going to look about look at how to be part of school leadership now that you are on leadership team, or even if you don’t have a technical leadership team, you are a school leader and how to work with administration in your unique role as an instructional coach. So that is going to be episode 191 And until then, happy coaching!

Chrissy Beltran  47:53

now that you’ve got so much to think about head over to buzzing with Miss b.com to grab some free downloads, become a VIP, and check out the podcast show notes. Happy coaching!