Reading & Writing in the Content Areas: Why All Coaches Need Literacy Knowledge with Douglas Fisher, ep. 189

Reading & Writing in the Content Areas: Why All Coaches Need Literacy Knowledge with Douglas Fisher, ep. 189, Instructional Coaching with Ms. B Podcast

Chrissy Beltran  00:00

Coach, I know you’re trying to figure this all out on your own. You’re investing in your own learning on your own time because you want to show up for your teachers in the best way possible. Building your coaching program is a huge challenge. And it’s even more difficult when you’re asked to know about literacy practices and how to support them. That’s why I created the confident literacy coach. This self paced course gives you the knowledge strategies, processes, and downloadable tools that you need to be competent in your coaching work every single day. The new update to the reading and writing modules includes information about literacy that will help you grow your skills practices, and grow your students into skilled readers and writers. Check it out at confidentliteracy coach.com And stop reinventing the wheel.

Chrissy Beltran  00:40

Have you felt like you’ve provided all the PD, you facilitated all the PLCs and you’ve had all the conversations, but your teachers are still stuck. If your teachers are resistant to instructional change or having trouble implementing new things, it might look something like this. They’re still using outdated practices that we know don’t work. They fight every PLC to claim to their favorite lessons or strategies. You see evidence of for instructional methods everywhere despite having provided tons of PD and better practices. And kids aren’t learning and the same kids are at the bottom of the data chart every single time. Does this sound familiar? To literacy coaches who are committed to helping students grow as readers and writers This is especially frustrating. That’s why I created a free webinar for literacy coaches. But really any coach can value from it. It’s all about helping teachers embrace new practices and try out something new even when they’re not excited about it. We’ll learn why teachers resist change, how to help teachers feel secure and ready to try something new. And my favorite strategies and methods to encourage choice while expecting and holding them accountable for trying new things. I’m so excited to share this information with you that I created a free download that you’ll get when you grab the free pre recorded webinar at buzzing with Miss b.com slash shift. Grab it today. It’s totally free and it will make such a difference in your coaching.

Chrissy Beltran  02:03

Welcome to instructional coaching with Miss B where we believe that every teacher deserves a coach and every coach does too. I’m Chrissy Beltran, an elementary teacher who became a coach, and I had to create my own coaching program that worked. Now I teach coaches how to design their coaching programs, build a school wide action plan and use differentiated strategies to support teachers. Plus, I’ve got a special spot in my heart for literacy coaches. Now let’s dig into the episode. Hey, coach, and welcome to episode 189 of instructional coaching with Missy, today we are talking about reading and writing in the content areas, sometimes called Writing across the curriculum or reading across the curriculum. Why all coaches need literacy knowledge with Douglas Fisher.

Chrissy Beltran  02:44

I am so excited today because my course is open. The Confident literacy coach is the one stop shop for literacy coaches, it will teach you what to do with coaching and what to do with literacy, you can grab that at confident literacy coach.com. And it’s open today. And if you already are on the list, the waitlist, you will get an email about that, you can just click that link, jump right in, okay. It’s actually lots of lessons, it has so many resources that you can just download. And you can use them for yourself or with your teachers. And it really gives you all the tools you need to just hit the ground running instead of like always trying to figure out what’s wrong, what’s not working, I’ll tell you what works and you can use it. So that’s confident literacy coach.com. Grab that course because it is open now if you’re listening in real time.

Chrissy Beltran  03:31

And you can also of course, grab my free webinar at buzzing with Miss b.com slash shift. That’s the making the shift webinar if you’re moving into science of reading or science of reading practices, this webinar is for you, it will help you get teachers on board and talk about what you need to do to help teachers embrace new learning. So check that out at buzzing with Miss b.com slash shift, you’re going to be happy that you did.

Chrissy Beltran  03:53

Today, we’re gonna talk with Douglas Fisher about reading and writing in the content areas. Now this is the cause that is near and dear to my heart. If you are a coach as math or science or just a general instructional coach, and you don’t know how to help teachers integrate reading and writing and learning to read and learning to write through content areas all day long, then that can be a real struggle to get kids to grow in their literacy as well as in the content areas. Because one of the ways that we learn thing is by reading in two ways really is by reading and writing about it that’s gonna solidify that learning. So we’re gonna dig into some of the reasons that we’ve seen, you know, compartmentalize compartmentalize instruction, what school looks like when we really do build literacy all day long. And Douglas is going to share a little about a little bit about one of his books 50 instructional routines to develop content area literacy. So I’m so excited to dig into this conversation. So welcome Douglas to the podcast. I’m so glad that you could join us today.

Douglas Fisher  04:53

Thank you. Thanks for the invitation. Yeah, totally.

Chrissy Beltran  04:55

So as a way to introduce yourself, I would love to hear about a few things. Can you Tell us about who you help and how you spend most of your time and energy at work.

Douglas Fisher  05:04

I mostly work with teachers these days, I used to mostly work with students. I’m out of high school right now I, I really work to say to our teachers, you’re amazing at what you do. Let’s continue your journey of becoming amazing teachers. I work with colleagues, super dedicated, love what they do. And always, we’re always on a quest to improve. I learned all the time. I learned from my colleagues, I learned with my colleagues and I hope that the teachers I work with learn from me as well. I

Chrissy Beltran  05:35

love that way of looking at it, because that is the mission, right? We’re always growing. Everybody deserves a coach and support to do that. I love that. Now, this is just a fun question. But some people find it the trickiest question of all. What is your go to TV show or movie? Your comfort show? Or the one you watch over and over again?

Douglas Fisher  05:51

Ah, that’s a hard one because I’m not really a TV person. A

Chrissy Beltran  05:56

book person? Yeah, the go to book you reread.

Douglas Fisher  06:00

No, once I once I have it, I have it. I do get kind of addicted to a TV show. But I don’t like to have many because I don’t catch up on them. I am a movie person. I do like to go to the movie and immerse myself in the big movies. Because I get too distracted at home. Like halfway through a movie. I’m up walking around and doing something else. So I like going to the movies, there’s so many good movies out to tell amazing stories. I would probably say I’m more of a music person in the go to place. So if I’m in the more 80s mood, I’m going to be in Depeche Mode. I admit after I saw Taylor Swift in concert, I became a little bit of Swifty. I think she’s a very talented artist. But I think there’s so many people so many artists out there that, that I just love hearing their songs and their music and playing it over again. And and so it’s a very I think my go to have that would be my phone with all the music on

Chrissy Beltran  06:55

it. Perfect. Yes, your your beloved playlists that you tend to play? Yeah, yep, a curated list. I love that. All right. So today we’re talking about reading and writing in the content areas or some say, you know, reading and writing across the curriculum. And I think that this is an issue that kind of doesn’t get enough attention. Honestly, so many schools have really compartmentalized. The way we teach, especially literacy like this is reading, this is writing, this is math, everything’s in little boxes. So, you know, even whenever they like, you know, some people will say, Oh, well, we’re departmentalized. I teach reading and second grade, I teach writing, which is like me. So what are some of the consequences we’re seeing of this compartmentalization.

Douglas Fisher  07:34

So in one case, then people abdicate the responsibility and say, Oh, I’m not a, I’m not a math teacher. So I don’t have to do anything related to numbers, or I’m not a writing person. So I DON’T CARE for Kids, right? And spelling doesn’t count all of those kinds of messages to young people about it someone else. The language is how human beings learn. We learn through language, we learn with language, all of us use language to communicate, to learn to understand. So all of us are language workers. Yes, we also have content to teach. But we teach content through language through reading, writing, speaking, listening, and viewing, math, art, PE, all of that is learned through speaking, reading, writing, viewing, listening. And so that’s I think that’s a challenge. And when we see too much separation, that I am not that kind of teacher because if you’re teaching social studies, you are still developing language, it’s just language in social studies. I feel like reading has been, even though it’s really popular it to have conversations about reading in the elementary grades, especially in the primary grades, we are having all kinds of conversations about what it looks like for reading in the in the elementary primary grades. We’re less comfortable having conversations around that with, you know, late elementary fifth grade, up through high school we’ve been really working on so the reading rope is very common in the primary grades people talk about the reading Rob, and how Scarborough’s work even though it’s really old. It’s got a resurgence and people it’s a visual that resonates with people. But when you think about older kids, that’s not really the right visual anymore. This year, as she says, you know, some of the strands become less critical or are as people who write about her worksite extremes become less critical. Other strands become increasingly critical. So we’ve been we’ve been talking about a model for older readers, what would it look like? And we’re talking right now about like a little battery pack with a plug as a metaphor, and the plug is self efficacy. The battery pack is filled with background knowledge, topical knowledge and cultural knowledge. And then there are four kinds of bars if you will, as we think about it. Do the students recognize the word? Do they know what the word the word knowledge Do they have sentence fluency? And then do they have verbal reasoning? So we’re kind of processing through, like, what would a model be for older readers based on the evidence we have today?

Chrissy Beltran  10:09

Yeah, that’s interesting. I think that that part of the issue is that whenever people talk about Scarborough’s reading rope, I think they’re talking about the parts maybe that they think they’re less familiar with. So then they really focus on this word recognition piece. And then they kind of omit all the language comprehension piece, like you’re talking about background knowledge, and you know, all these structures that we have to understand, and they’re missing out on that piece. So then, then it becomes less relevant as kids get older, because the lot of the kids who need those things are kids who didn’t get them when they were younger, right? Filling in holes with those word recognition elements. But the general kids like the rest of the kids who need to keep moving forward as well. They’re not stuck there. Right. So we have to build on what they have as well. And so if we’re only focusing on one component we’re looking at, at how we can teach kids using that model at the exclusion of everything else. I think that that is where we do see an issue with kids get older, we need to really dig into those language comprehension pieces. And what that looks like at upper levels, I think, right? Great.

Douglas Fisher  11:11

Yeah, I was having a conversation with a group of high school teachers, who were looking at saying, like, why are we talking about word recognition? And I said, well, there are some kids who need intervention. But that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about the average classroom teacher, and word recognition. So I did an example with them on sight words, and the perception of sight word recognition was high frequency words. And so I’m like, no, no, no, I’m not talking about your kindergarten word list. I’m talking about recognizing words at sight. And what is the instruction that would need to occur to recognize words at sight. And so when I said to them, and I’ll say to you, oh, the word Vygotsky. Most of us educators recognize the word Vygotsky. At site, we can say it, or the phonology that orthographic mapping happens automatically, we have meaning for it. We talked about zone of proximal development, inner speech, social cultural theory, we activate a whole bunch of stuff, by instantly seeing that word. If I went to my dentist, my dentist probably would not know Vygotsky. At site, my dentist would probably stumble over the word, not recognize it probably not activates phonology, when they when reading that word, like having to kind of parse it apart or whatever. Because our sight word, vocabulary continues to grow. And it grows in different content areas and disciplines. And that’s for me word recognition. It continues throughout our life. We don’t stop working on word recognition with our students.

Chrissy Beltran  12:37

Yeah, that makes so much sense. Like those two, three words that we talked about that are very content specific. But you’re right, like there are lots of words in any kind of dentists tech dentistry texts, that I’m going to have to like really do some work on? Yes, just to comprehend at a very, very superficial level, right? Yeah. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So then whenever we are compartmentalizing all this learning, we’re missing the opportunity to develop all of that background knowledge and those word connections and meanings and all the framework that kids need to comprehend at higher level.

Douglas Fisher  13:08

Right? Right.

Chrissy Beltran  13:10

Well, then, what can school look like when we’re doing a really good job of building literacy throughout the day? And what what does that create? What opportunity to create? What are the outcomes? You know, what is it? What is it like utopia?

Douglas Fisher  13:22

I think every one of us needs to be thinking about literacy development. And, and I would argue specific listening, reading work that all of us have to be doing, having students in complex text with high quality instructions, where students are building their self efficacy, where they’re saying, Oh, when I put forth this effort, and I have this goal, I actually learn more, we have to be recognizing background knowledge, topical knowledge, cultural knowledge, and developing that we have to be thinking about how do I improve their reading, then their overall literacy? And I think I appreciate the disciplinary literacy conversations. I recognize scientists think differently than historians. And we need to get kids into that kind of thinking. But we also have to continue their reading development that more generic reading development in our field tends to go in these either or dichotomies. So we either have disciplinary literacy, or we have content area reading. It’s both both are important. And as the texts get harder, we have to help students understand those texts, you know that as the only one filling, we’re talking about those juicy sentences, take apart that sentence and really understand what it’s doing. As you were saying earlier, the language comprehension, verbal reasoning continues to grow. And then we have to think through that understanding the reference, you know, why did they say it? What is it referring back to or forward to? So there’s all kinds of work we need to be doing with young people when we do it. I think their confidence grows as well as their competence grows. And it’s pretty rare. rewarding to feel success. And I know, I know we can learn from failure. I know we say, you know, we learn from failure, we learn from mistakes, it is true. We can learn. We do learn from failures and mistakes. But our brain really likes to learn from success. Success feels amazing. It floods that reward pathway, it feels great. No one likes the feeling of failure. No one likes being wrong. Yes, we learn from it. But imagine if we can get our young people to be able to learn from their successes, as well as their mistakes, like, we plan experiences, where they experience that success. And it reinforces the reward pathway. And they start to say, I want to do that again, because I feel good. I’m actually good at this. We had a student, a quick example of a student who came in at ninth grade and did not read I mean, really, really, like CVC words, did not read them. And his reading teacher, yesterday came up to me and said, You won’t believe what he just said, in front of a whole bunch of kids, and peers and teachers. Now he used to go hide and make sure no one saw him get any kind of extra help from the reading specialist. But yesterday in front of a whole group of kids, he said, Mr. Ortega, I can read words now. And not just the little ones, and the level of pride and like I am a ninth grader, and I’m publicly saying this now. And I just how that must feel. And now he wants to start doing a little video recording about telling high schoolers. Don’t be embarrassed if you can’t read, because there are things you can do to learn. And so we’re going to record him on a little video explaining his thinking now. And that’s the kind of thing that feeds us. That’s the kind of thing that’s like, we did that. And I don’t know why he didn’t know how to read before ninth grade. I don’t know what happened to him in his life. However, it was super embarrassing. And he had repeated failure. And you can imagine the behavior when you want to hide the fact that you can’t read.

Chrissy Beltran  17:08

Yeah, absolutely. My husband was asking about that the other day, because we have a kindergartener who’s a pretty fluent reader, you know, and she was my daughter, and she was reading aloud. And my husband said, so does this develop reading. I said, Well, we’re just listening to a read because we like to listen to a read. But I said, Imagine if you’re on a bike, and you already know kind of the basics of how to ride a bike. And you’re, you’re okay on it, and you keep practicing, and you get better at it. So well, now imagine you’re on a bike, and you have no clue how to ride a bike. And every time you fall off, I just say, we’ll get back on the bike, because you’re never gonna figure it out. If you don’t get back on there. Right? I don’t teach you those pieces that you’re missing. If I don’t help you develop those skills. I mean, some people have like, natural ability, but most people like just like in reading, most people do not. Right. So you know, you’ve got to have that skill set developed for your practice to be purposeful, or else you’re just failing all the time, and you never want to ride a bike again.

Douglas Fisher  17:58

Yeah, I love what you’re saying. So it’s part of my mission in life. Instruction has to be strong, it has to be effective, it has to be growth producing. And we need to give students practice simply saying that they should go practice things writing or reading or the piano is not going to make them better. And the phrase that we say all the time is practice makes perfect. It’s not true. practice makes permanent. And, and so I really appreciate Yes, we like listening to her read, but that’s not was making her a better reader. There’s a practice effect, so that what she has been taught has a chance of sticking. Yeah. And I unfortunately, see classrooms where they the instruction is amazing. It’s so good, I would be honored to be in that room. But those kids never engage in practice. And so it’s an uphill battle for the teacher, because if they’re not engaged in sufficient practice, the learning doesn’t stick.

Chrissy Beltran  18:53

Yeah, that makes sense. And I think that’s the benefit of reading and writing all day long is they get practice all throughout the day. Yeah, I saw huge gains I did. Years ago, I was a member of the National Writing Project, the local site, and was one of the things we were talking about was writing across the curriculum. And it was such once I started really being thoughtful about that, and making sure my kids were having structured and purposeful opportunities to write throughout the day. I was there writing then teachers next year said, Keep doing what you’re doing. If you’ve never had writers, that’s good. Awesome. Yeah. It was a huge shift for me. And I was like, Yeah, I mean, I was kind of did it but not to that degree. And it made such a difference, just being more purposeful about it. But so then this is kind of what I’m interested in, you’re talking about in your book 50 instructional routines to develop content areas literacy. I feel like one of the issues is people kind of don’t know, where do we spend our time doing this? Like, what can this even look like? So you have some really specific practices that teachers can use in the content areas, and I’m curious about how you went about choosing them. How do you know which are the 50 that we’re going to be the

Douglas Fisher  20:00

Great question. So the criteria were used, there had to be evidence of research like that. People have studied this and said, this has the potential to improve learning. So in at least some studies, it did do that. Second criteria, it had to be used in multiple content areas. So it wasn’t specifically a science or a math, it had to have effectiveness in multiple continents, perhaps not all the content areas, we couldn’t find ones that they know every country. But it wasn’t isolated to a specific kind of learning it these were more generic approaches that have evidence and could be transparent and transportable. What we were trying to do is say, if you want to build habits with kids, they need to experience these things. You don’t want to get them bored. But you also want to be able to build some habits with them from class to class, to class to class. And that’s what our criteria was. So and it was fascinating to watch, you know, what didn’t make it very isolated strategies only in one content or discipline, or strategies that people talk about, for which there was no published evidence that they made a difference. So that’s where we tried to narrow the list down. We could have come up with more than 50, the publisher kind of said, that’s all the pages you get. But they’re actually a few more than that. And then we started thinking about, where do they apply? Did we balance between things that the teacher would do before attacks or during attacks. So we tried to look at some different ways to think about the organization, we ended up putting them together alphabetically because people could find we decided you could find them faster if you alphabetically, but there’s all kinds of ways to like sort and resort them. One of the things I do is I give people a little index cards with different reading strategies. And I have them sort them, like how would you use these before text? How would you use these after text? How would you have students engage on their own with these verses? What requires teacher instruction? So I have them do different words, sorts with these cards to help them develop some flexibility in how they think about instructional routines like

Chrissy Beltran  22:08

that I love. I love doing work for it during a professional development, one of my favorite things to do. Can you think of one offhand, that was one that people talk about a lot, but didn’t make the cut? Because it wasn’t actually research, there was no research to support it.

Douglas Fisher  22:23

Oh, gosh, that was a while back. There were some writing approaches, like acronyms for writing, you all can Google them. There’s acronyms for writing, that just haven’t had published research behind them. Like, here’s a little model of writing a little hamburger model or whatever. They just don’t have evidence for them, behind them. And then there are some, some that we almost put in there, like these are malpractice, that it’s still unfortunately, common practice to do round robin reading, you know, like one, iterate and count ahead. I still see this. And there’s no evidence that that’s a good idea. The challenge, what are the challenges around oral reading? When done? Well, oral reading actually has a positive effect on learning. It probably is this impressing our brain when we’re seeing and hearing other people read. But when done poorly, it doesn’t have any effect at all. So we were careful about that when we didn’t put choral reading in because we were a little worried that the risk of doing it incorrectly and having no effect was greater than specifics. Somewhere super easy, like reciprocal teaching. There are so many studies out about reciprocal teaching, there are good effect sizes. That’s easy. Like everyone, everyone knows that jigsaw easy that there are lots of studies that show the effective effectiveness of jigsaw.

Chrissy Beltran  23:46

Yeah, it’s funny, you should mention that on Robin and choral reading, because just the other day, my whenever we were having this conversation, we really were talking about this, I promise. My husband said, Well, what about like, is it a good thing whenever the teacher will go, like my art teachers used to do you know, how they would do like round robin? I said, Well, what would you do during round robin reading because he was you know, an English language learner, first generation and was not a huge fan of school when he was little, or any, any point really. And he said, Well, I would count all the kids in front of me and I’d figure out what my paragraph was. I said, Yeah, how much did that really do for you? Like, was that really he was like, yeah, no, I didn’t do anything. I was just wondering why they did it. I said they did it because they didn’t know what else to do. And they thought it on your toes.

Douglas Fisher  24:30

And especially when they call kids on random lays

Chrissy Beltran  24:33

ahead. Oh, yes. Popcorn reading as well. What really got me was popcorn reading. I thought what would happen? He’s like, Well, I just wouldn’t know wouldn’t be ready. Yeah, that was all there are

Douglas Fisher  24:43

some there are some very funny tick tock videos of young adults talking about the trauma of popcorn reading a round robin reading. Yeah, I’ve been collecting some of these for teachers, because oh, they’re one of the kids like, and I didn’t say the word medieval right. I know the word mean evil but I froze up and I don’t like it’s so funny because they’re doing this like these confessions on Tik Tok around. Yeah, now they’re in their 20s. And they’re having these confessions of Round Robin reading and popcorn reading.

Chrissy Beltran  25:12

Yes, I can remember two time kids in my classroom mispronouncing words, and I was mortified for them because I was like, Oh my gosh, I would be so embarrassed right now, it’s not a big deal. But I would feel embarrassed, you know. And I remember the word was covered. And he said, Cut board. And another word, I was already in high school, and the Word was Barbados and she said Barbados, like, how would they know those? You know,

Douglas Fisher  25:33

right? It’s a logical one, right? Yeah.

Chrissy Beltran  25:38

So then choral reading, I would love Could you share a little bit about what makes poor reading work and what doesn’t make it work, because I’ve seen it, like you’re saying well and poorly. So

Douglas Fisher  25:48

first rate on a text is probably not a good idea for choral reading. So it’s a, it’s a previewed or practice piece of text, they probably have some discussion about it before they do the choral read about it. So they have a general understanding of what’s happening in the text, that’s going to increase the likelihood that choral reading is effective. If there are kids who really struggle with that first read, it’s probably not going to do much good for them to do the choral read when it’s previewed in practice, and when they have a general understanding of it. And there’s a routine. So the routine is like depending on your age, are you following your finger? Are you only using your eyes, when there’s a routine that they interact with, there’s probably the we think there’s probably this impressed it’s happening in our brain, we’re seeing the words, we’re hearing the words, we’re producing the words. And so it does build fluency, it might accelerate your fluency a little bit more than you read on your own. So it’s kind of a little accelerate accelerator. So it’s really interesting to watch, when teachers build a habit of a choral read, where it’s premium practice, there’s a conversation or some amount of understanding of at least at the literal level, and then there’s a read out loud, and then follow it up with a task. So either vocabulary task or a writing task, then you’re going to see the effect of choral reading go way up.

Chrissy Beltran  27:06

Thank you so much for clarifying that. I love that. Okay, do you have a few favorite routines is what I would love to know about because I’m sure there’s some that really stood out to you that you were like, when I see this in action.

Douglas Fisher  27:18

Um, some of the high utility ones, I still love seeing reciprocal teaching and Jigsaw are among my favorite go twos. I love to take a piece of paper and fold it into quadrants and fold the middle down. So I have four quadrants and a rhombus in the middle, and then have students write their own notes in that first upper left quadrant. That’s where my notes go, and then have a conversation. And when other people talk, they take notes on the other quadrants. I really liked that, because it shows them you’re accountable for what other people say, even if you don’t agree with them. I think there’s a lot of vocabulary strategies. One of my colleagues did a book on vocabulary, there’s 50 vocabulary strategies, those I believe kids satiate on vocabulary strategies, they get bored with vocab. It’s like the coolest thing ever for two weeks. And they don’t ever want to do it again. Yeah, for sure. So we do need a lot of vocabulary strategies, because word learning is super important. Knowing that knowledge of the words is really important. So I think we have to change that up every once in a while to make sure students are still paying attention to the words. I like. We talked about word sorting, we talked about I like self collection strategies of vocabulary. I still like a fair model card where they put the word what it means what it doesn’t mean and illustration or since I still think there’s some processing time that that’s good. So I like seeing students interact with a text and what the teacher does to get them into that text eyes on the text more and more, more and more minutes.

Chrissy Beltran  28:51

That’s so important. Yeah, that’s the practice component that you’re talking about. Right? Building that opportunity to come back to the tech to practice all the things that they’ve been learning in the context of a tech and then to write about it. Yeah, yeah. I love that. So okay, so people want to grab your book, where can they find it? And also Amazon’s

Douglas Fisher  29:09

easiest, okay. Oh, yeah, Amazon’s easiest. That’s 50

Chrissy Beltran  29:13

instructional routines to develop content area literacy and then Is there anything any other place that people can learn from you? You know, your website, social media, anything like that?

Douglas Fisher  29:22

So my I still have Twitter x d, Fisher SDSU. That’s a great way to connect with me, i i send stuff out almost every day and things I’m thinking about website Fisher and fries. Her last name is Fr EE Why should be fray but it’s fry Fisher and frey.com is another way we put all of our resources up there all kinds of PowerPoints and things we write for. They’re

Chrissy Beltran  29:44

awesome. That could be such a great place for coaches to go who are providing professional development of their schools to build the repertoire strategies and the understanding of content area literacy as well. Thank you so much for being here today.

Douglas Fisher  29:55

Thanks for the invitation in the conversation. I really appreciated it.

Chrissy Beltran  30:02

You know, you can probably tell when you’re listening, some of these guests conversations just absolutely fly by. And my conversation with Douglas Fisher just flew by because I want to get back in the classroom and do all of these fun things. And I just really enjoyed chatting with them through person. And I swear that conversation I had with my husband just happened last week, this is wild. And we did talk about choral reading and round robin. And this is what we talked about at home. He’s a history guy loves history, and I’m an education person. And this is these are the conversations that we have because we’re just like full of nerds. Okay, so I want to make sure that you remember, you can grab that making the shift webinar if you’re trying to get to move it move your teachers into embracing content area practices, it’s got some great ideas to help you do that that’s buzzing with Miss b.com slash shift. And please do not forget the competent literacy coaches open you can grab it at competent literacy coach.com. Next week, I’m going to continue our series on veteran instruction. And we’re going to deep dive into math and what math classroom can look like and how to make it happen. So we’re going to talk to my guest Christian Acosta next week, and until then, happy coding. Now that you’ve got so much to think about, head over to buzzing with buzzfeed.com to grab some free downloads, become a VIB and check out the podcast show notes. Happy coaching!