SEL as a Schoolwide Approach with Lana Penley, ep. 232

SEL as a Schoolwide Approach with Lana Penley, ep. 232, Instructional Coaching with Ms. B Podcast

Chrissy Beltran  00:00

Hey, coaches, it’s time for the event of the year, and this year it’s even bigger. The simply impact Summit, formerly simply coaching Summit, is my favorite coaching conference of the summer, and this July, it’s even more incredible. Administrators, teachers and all school leaders are invited to the summit. There will be sessions designed for different audiences to make sure everyone gets what they need to have an amazing school year. Keynote speakers like my friend Nicole Turner, Dr Jan Birkins and Carrie Yates, authors of the science of reading book, shifting the balance and Dr Sean Woodley, behavior and management guru will share their knowledge and inspire us. And I can’t wait. I’m presenting high impact coaching strategy improving the effectiveness of the coaching strategy that you already use. This session will walk you through this coaching strategy that will create the biggest impact on your teachers and classrooms. You’ll learn when to use each one, how to make each one effective and purposeful, and all of the tips I’ve learned when using these strategies with teachers, if you felt like co teaching or observations just aren’t cutting it, this session is for you. Save your spot for the simply impact summit this July, 14 through 16th, so you don’t miss out on all the incredible learning and fun. I love a good PD, but I really love a good PD from home. Register for the summit and get all the tools you need to make the school year a great one. Head to buzzing with miss b.com/summit to save your spot, the sooner, the better for awesome pricing.

Chrissy Beltran  01:22

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Chrissy Beltran  02:39

Welcome to instructional coaching with Miss B where we believe that every teacher deserves a coach, and every coach does too. I’m Chrissy Beltran, an elementary teacher who became a coach, and I had to create my own coaching program that worked. Now I teach coaches how to design their coaching programs, build a school wide action plan and use differentiated strategies to support teachers. Plus, I’ve got a special spot in my heart for literacy coaches. Now let’s dig into the episode. Hey coach and welcome to episode 232, of instructional coaching with Miss B the episode. Topic today is SEL as a school wide approach with my guest, Lana Penley. Now this is part of my mini series about school wide behavior and management practices that actually work, because we are seeing some really big needs in the areas of behavior and management right now in schools. If you are an instructional coach and you’re trying to figure out how to support your teachers, you can grab my free behavior guide, download. It’s a classroom management approach that has worked with me. In working with tons of different teachers, they’ve been able to adjust it to, kind of like tailor it to their own class. And I have found it very effective as a coach going into modeling classrooms as well. If you go to buzzing with Miss b.com/episode 232, you can grab that download, and it’s just, you just scroll down to the bottom of the show notes there, and you can grab it from there. It’s a really good guide. I have shared it after trying it out in so many rooms, and I really think you’re going to like it. So definitely, if this is a concern for you, grab that guide. And now I’m going to introduce my guest, Lana Penley. So thank you so much for being here today. Lana,

Lana Penley 04:17

glad to be here. Excited to be talking with you today.

Chrissy Beltran  04:19

Awesome as a quick way to introduce yourself, we would love to hear about a few things. So could you tell us a little bit about who you help and how you spend most of your time and energy at work?

Lana Penley  04:30

All right? Great, great question. Well, I help educators create healthy and happy schools through SEO, or, as we all know, social and emotional learning. I’m a former principal author, speaker and founder of my company, unlocking SEL so I spend about half of my energy delivering training to clients around the country, schools or districts that I’m working with, and then the other half, and to be honest, trying to spread my message of like reimagining educational spaces as. Places where both students and staff can thrive, to bring the joy back in education,

Chrissy Beltran  05:04

I love it, and my second question is, it’s all about bringing joy. It’s I’m kind of on a mission to share hobbies with people who work at schools, because I feel like we do not spend the time on our own personal selves that we should, because we dedicate so much of our time to school. So what is a hobby that you

Lana Penley  05:22

love? Love that I’m so glad you asked. And it reminds me I talk about trying to remember the 360 of us, like all of us, not just the part in education, because it definitely can take over. But my hobby is probably like a lot of other people right now. I’m totally in love with Pickleball. I’m admitting I love it. I’m a former athlete, and it’s allowed me to get in touch with that part of myself again. And we actually have a court in my community, and I’ll be playing tonight. It’s a great way to exercise and build community. So there’s my little plug for pickleball. I love

Chrissy Beltran  05:53

it. I know some people who do pickleball, and I have never actually played, but it looked like it would be really fun. All right,

05:59

throw it on your to do list, your bucket list, yeah, it should. Alright,

Chrissy Beltran  06:02

great. Okay, so could you share a little bit about what Sel is and also what it isn’t? Any of the common misconceptions?

Lana Penley  06:10

Okay, okay, okay, great. Great question there SEL, some people say sell. It’s social, emotional learning. I think of it as an umbrella term it. It is a transformative, transformative framework that helps people develop these essential life skills like awareness and regulation and compassion and relationship building, decision making, all of those things we really need in life. So it’s about teaching those things with intention. And here’s the real the real power that that I found in SEL is that idea of it being an umbrella term about creating positive school culture, because that’s what it’s all about. Anyway, we all know that, right? It’s, it’s the foundation upon which everything else is built. So think of it sort of as the heartbeat of a healthy school culture where initiatives like trauma informed restorative practices, mental health support, behavior management can all sort of take root and flourish when we have this umbrella of social and emotional learning.

Chrissy Beltran  07:14

Awesome. Yeah. And so what are some of the misconceptions that you have heard about SEL I feel like it has been a lot lately.

Lana Penley  07:21

Well, I should, I should say that I really came to SEL through the hard way, like I had, I was the principal of the school that had a crisis. We had a fire during the school day, and so we turn everybody survived. But as you can imagine, we were incredibly traumatized, and we turned to SEL sort of as a way to heal, and we made some mistakes, and some things went really well. So when I talk about this is what it is, this is what it’s not. I’m not someone that’s like removed from it. I’m someone that’s been in it and done the work and made some great decisions and made some not so great decisions. So that’s kind of the lens I want and the context that I kind of bring to this conversation. But what it is not. There’s so many misconceptions, so let me just think of a few key ones there. I would say it’s not a one size fits all program or a quick fix for behavior management. So you take this you like we do in education, you plop it down, and then you have to do it exactly that way. Yes, and immediately everything’s changed, right? How about this one? In today’s times, it is not political. It focuses on fostering kindness. And can’t we all get behind that? It is not promoting any type, yeah, of political ideology, that’s what I tell you. It’s about kindness for all. It is about empowerment, not control, because it helps students understand and manage their emotions, teaching them to take ownership. I remember people would come to my school and expect there would be kids like sitting perfectly in rows and never speaking out or doing anything. And it wasn’t about that at all. Was not my experience. And I would say it’s not a distraction from but compliments academics, that was another worry people have. But far from being a distraction, it really enhanced our academic and our scores went up, because you just think about it, when when students are learning social skills reducing stress. It fosters this positive learning environment. And I guess finally, this is kind of my biggest thing. Here it is not for students alone. Mm, hmm. So a mistake we made is to heal. We went right straight to student SEL without realizing our staff had also been through a fire, yeah. So they also are real humans. I was a real human as a as a principal who experienced this and it, it really made us pause and do this parallel track of stress reduction, of emotional regulation. Um, so that’s kind of the the ones that come. Mind, yeah,

Chrissy Beltran  10:01

I like that, because that’s the purpose of this episode, is that it’s SEL, SEL as a school wide approach, not just for kids, but that’s right, that we operate.

10:10

Yes. That’s a great way of putting it, yes. So then how

Chrissy Beltran  10:14

does having SEL as a school wide practice benefit student behavior?

Lana Penley  10:20

Well, I really think of it as being, like woven into the fabric of schools culture, versus this one particular SEL curriculum, and we certainly used a specific, what I call student curriculum, and there’s a lot of them out there, but we’re trying to remember create, as you said, like the whole operating system to be different, a supportive, consistent environment where students feel safe and valued, as do the adults. So if you break that down how, how that could work, let’s think about like emotional regulation. When, when students are specifically taught about their emotions, they’re okay to feel their emotions. It’s how we manage them, and they become better equipped to handle frustration, disappoint, disappointment, even conflict. Let’s take something as basic as I’ve seen this, no matter where I am in the school, like kindergarteners want to be first in line, and not just kindergarteners, right? It goes up first and second grade, right? Somebody jumps in front of the other student. That can become a really big thing really fast, versus having talked about that, managing motions. Oh, what are you noticing right now? I’m feeling really upset right now. What’s a good decision you make? I could walk away. I could take a breath. I could say, It’s okay. I could say, Can I do that next time? Mm, hmm, like something really small, and how it could apply to bigger things. So whether it’s that or in another situation, in the classroom, on the recess yard, whatever it is, it just really helps them to manage conflict, which we need so much more training around how to manage conflict in school settings and and then the second thing I would think about is about building these relationships and social skills where those things don’t happen in the first place, because there’s a little community in the classroom, and there’s a community in the school as a whole. I mean, I could go on and on and on, but those are like two that are really kind of stand out for me. Yeah, can

Chrissy Beltran  12:11

you describe what that community is like and how you can go around building it?

Lana Penley  12:16

There’s so many specific ways to really bring SEL into the school, really thinking it, rather than like I said, this, this standalone curriculum, but creating this nurturing environment, kind of, here’s what that that could look like, I would say, embedded in daily routines. So it’s not a just a separate lesson, but it’s as we weave it into the fabric of the community. We’re talking about it in staff meetings. We have signage up. We’re involving our families, all of this. This is what we’re doing. This is I call it. This is our bridge for to move from where we are to where we want to be, and we want to stay on that SCL bridge so that embedded into the fabric. And then second, we do need explicit SEL instruction. So I say it’s not just that, but we do need that. So age appropriate lessons on key SEL skills like understanding and managing emotion, setting goals, but they’re taught in a way that’s engaging and relevant. So we taught an explicit SEL lesson once a week, we called it well being Wednesday. The whole school taught, wait for it, the same lesson on the same day. Scoped out. It was a miracle to get it to happen, but once it did, it was really amazing, because we were all talking about gratitude, no matter whose classroom you were in or what space you were and then I would say it incorporates adult SEL so that would be the other part. As we we’ve mentioned here that it is this way of being to try to try to create where places where people can thrive. And we saw that firsthand. Christine, we went from a school that not very many people applied to to after a few years, when the word got out, we’re doing what? Stress Reduction? Yes, we had a yoga space, we had outings, we did the happy hour. All the things to make it a good place to work, you will attract these employees that want to be a part of something like that. That was my experience. So that’s kind of what I’m really thinking about this, embedded routines, explicit instruction, and really incorporating adult sel. Yeah,

Chrissy Beltran  14:27

I like that. What did you mentioned some of the lessons that you were doing and that they were actually the same lesson, you know, throughout your grades? What did some of those lessons look like? What were some of the components?

Lana Penley  14:37

Well, we started with breath work. I think that’s really important. So we started with teaching the kids about their brain, about their bodies and how breath work. Can help us get in touch with that and really feel stillness. Some of our kids have never been still, and so you go in there even for five year olds, and we had them okay when we started. Can we just be quiet in our bodies for 10 seconds, and then we’d build it to 30 seconds and then to a minute, to where every one of our classrooms for two minutes were able to just focus on breath work to help calm their bodies down. So that was the way we started every single every single year, was about how we use breath work to help make us feel calm and safe, then we would move to Okay. Now let’s talk about how we can support this for those around me in my classroom. And then how can we take this to the larger audience? We used a curriculum called Mind Up. We also use second steps and PBIS. Those are a few of the ones that we were using, okay?

Chrissy Beltran  15:41

And then for the adults, you talked a little bit about having some of those, those resources available and events available. But what did the work look like that whenever you were doing work with adults around this like maybe during the context of a professional development or a PLC meeting or something, what did that look like?

Lana Penley  15:59

Well, what I would say was I wanted it to be in everything that we did, how the so this is kind of crazy. We want to co center the adults. What? But when we do that, when we create these kind of spaces and people want to work, everything changes. I know some principals like, oh, people are going to take advantage. People are going to do this or that? That was not my experience at all. In fact, staff was just very appreciative of this kind of really stance on the work that we could create, this place where everybody could be happy and thrive. It didn’t make didn’t mean hard decisions didn’t need to be made, but there wasn’t a lot of bumping into each other when we started doing some of these strategies. So that’s kind of the big picture. Picture. Specifically, once a month, we studied some sort of stress reduction. So it would be in our staff meetings and where we would really talk about this is what stress is. This is what it does to our body, and this is a way that we can manage this better. So there was the individual component, and then there was also the component where we as a system, try to manage the system in a way that did not pile on stress. So I think it’s both of those things we can’t just the onus of this is not just on the individual, but it’s awesome. It is on us, right? We’re all responsible for our own lives, but it’s also on the system as a whole to to work in a way that doesn’t just add layer after layer after layer and put people on the fast path to burnout. Yes,

Chrissy Beltran  17:35

yeah, because so many times our schools are like, Oh, we have to give an assessment next week. We don’t really have them yet. We’ll see when those come in, and we’ll, you know, we’re going to, you know, give the assessment. I guess we’ll give it on Wednesday, but, I mean, if we don’t get them till Tuesday, and then there’s just, like, this constant, like, rat race, you’re just, like, constantly trying to keep up. And they’re like, Oh, I asked you to submit this stuff by this date, but now I’ve changed the format, so if you already did it, you’re going to have to undo it and redo it and redo it again. Yes, it’s just,

Lana Penley  18:05

it’s that reminds me. So the staff came and said, Can here’s one thing we would like to have in this idea of stress management for adults. I said, Okay, talk to me. We want two week notice before we make any changes, so nothing rolls out unless we have, we don’t have two weeks to know about it, because that scenario Utah, you just said, causes so much stress, and it happens all the time, in a weekly basis, in schools, and by the way, that assessment may not even match the instruction that we’re teaching. You know, there’s that. There’s that too, but that’s just an example that I thought about is, yeah, let’s give people some space so they can relax their nervous system and know, we’re not throwing on an assembly right now tomorrow, like they’re like, this is what these two weeks are going to look like. And you can be solid in that, because teachers nervous system is just up here, and by teachers, I’m talking principals and everyone. And I really think burnout, really to education, is like rust to steal it is corroding everything, and that is what we have to really begin to pay a better attention to as a system. Yeah.

Chrissy Beltran  19:21

I mean, another example of that that I can think of is, is, like, school calendars that that get developed as you go, you

19:30

know, on the move, yeah, yeah.

Chrissy Beltran  19:32

Like, I work with a school that, you know, I asked one of the teachers, well, when is your whatever night your family, you know, math night going to be? She was like, I have no idea when it’s going to be. Like, they’re going to tell us to put together an activity the week before, you know? And I mean, it’s the same thing, like you said, the events that come up, but it’s, you know, I did work with the school as a new coach, and the principal at the end of one school year, built the calendar for the next year. It took a long time. We sat in in meetings, and we did. And it was work that, you know, could feel tedious, but then we had the calendar, and she said it’s so much easier to move something than to add something if we have, oh, great advice, yeah. And now that’s the advice I take for myself. I can move it, but I’m putting it on the calendar, at least I love that on there. Yeah, I know, yes, right? And if I have to move it back a week, I can move it back a week, but it’s better you can do that having it anywhere,

Lana Penley  20:21

yeah. But there’s a scientific reason for that too, that keeps our nervous system off of fight or flight, which is what we have to do, because that’s where we often are as educators, which then keeps the cortisol going, which keeps us like this, rather than coming down and being able to relax into what we’re doing.

Chrissy Beltran  20:41

And whenever we have those high levels of cortisol, and we are in fight or flight mode, and a child in our classroom is having a day, how do we react? We have no resources. So absolutely internally. So by the end, absolutely here, we’re done. We’re out of patience. We’re frustrated. We’ve given what we had to give, and then there’s nothing left and like that. Yeah, child is still there, you know, yes, yeah. Child needed better from us, and we didn’t have it to give. Yes, system and all of these demands, these constant demands

Lana Penley  21:15

on teachers, I heard something the other day. Maybe you’ve heard this before, that in this is not my original thinking, but of course, we take it and put it to education. Is that everybody has 12 spoons a day to spend. Have you ever heard this? This is like the currency, and depending on what happens to you during the day, is how many spoons it takes out of you. But you have to spread them out over the over the day. So that situation you just described, right? We have no spoons left. No, I can’t help but thinking about that now, I’m like, you are using a lot of spoons for this silly situation. Mm, hmm. And when, when we don’t have the calendar spread out like and we don’t know that uses a lot of spoons. I love that analogy. It’s

Chrissy Beltran  21:55

a good one, because then the certain children, I mean, all children, require a certain amount of spoons every day, and then some children, on some days, require more than others Absolutely. So if you don’t have that capacity, that whenever you’re seeing these repeat behaviors, because we’re piling on to what that child already is experiencing, with experiencing and bringing with them, and then we don’t have the patience for it, and then they’re like, you’re another person who doesn’t have patience for me. Yeah? So yes, it’s like a horrible cycle, yeah.

Lana Penley  22:20

And by the way, we’re, we are real people who have our own stuff happening, yes. And so that is going to take some spoons too, that that’s, that’s a hard thing too, as a system, that we’re expected to be these perfect beings with nothing going on in our own life, where a lot of us have gone through whatever the health crisis or family crisis or personal crisis, we bring that with us, and so when we’re in a community that cares for us, we can kind of let our guard down and share what we’re dealing with with other folks make us feel cared for, which then gives us, helps us keep our spoons to be able to deal with our students and support them.

Chrissy Beltran  22:58

Yeah, that’s so good. So you mentioned one mistake that schools might make whenever they’re trying to go the SEL route and use this as something they do across their school, and that was that they jump right to the kids and they forget about the adults. Absolutely. Are there any other mistakes that schools make when they go in this direction? And then, how can they avoid it if they’re trying to get something like this started

Lana Penley  23:20

at their schools? I think the second biggest one I see is thinking that Sel is a curriculum. So I will, I’m working with the school system on the West Coast, and I said, Do you have an SEL program? They’re like, yes. I’m like, what is it? And they’re like, we’re doing X, Y and Z curriculum. I said, Oh, okay. So then I talk with the school, and they’re said, Oh yeah, but by the way, we provided no training for that curriculum, and we just gave the teachers the book.

Chrissy Beltran  23:48

Then you’re not doing it, then you’re not doing it. Let’s not pretend.

Lana Penley  23:52

Sadly, that is the model I see most of the time. And then schools can say we’re doing SEO. So you compare that way with this whole system around it, and that’s what I teach. That’s what I write. I wrote my book about, how do you create this system to implement SEL and there are many components which is explicit curriculum, but I call that the student curriculum. We’re also teaching breath work. We also have peace corners. We’re also using trauma informed as a lens. There’s so many other things that go around it. So that would be That’s a misunderstanding that’s out there quite a bit in the education world of this Sel is this curriculum, and to be honest, I have never seen a school implement a standalone curriculum very well. It’s it’s everything around it, along with standardizing the calendar versus it’s Wellness Wednesday from nine to 930 and we’re going to do it every week, and we’re going to scope it out over the year, and these are going to be our. And we’re going to be a quarter ahead, so you’re going to know every quarter what’s coming next. I love that. And when we’re at our best, we even go over it and review it in a staff meeting before we teach the lessons. That’s how you do it school

Chrissy Beltran  25:14

wide. Mm, hmm, yeah. I think in the same vein, having like the counselor be the person who does SEL right? The counselor,

Lana Penley  25:22

yes. And that would be mistake number three, yeah, yes, yeah,

Chrissy Beltran  25:28

yeah. That responsibility cannot just be one person’s because it’s not a it’s not just about that kids are taught these things. It’s how they are used, like you said in the fabric of your school, how they are used throughout the day. They need to be baked into the way we interact with kids. And if we don’t have the learning as educators, we cannot interact with our kids that way. So we drop our kids off at counseling and guidance lessons, and then we pick them up after 45 minutes once a week, and expect that. Well, nothing’s changing. I don’t see them getting any better. Yeah. Well, yeah, you don’t even know what it is.

Lana Penley  25:58

Now, I must admit, I did that exact same thing when we started. So if you’re a principal that’s doing that right now, it’s okay, but hit me up and let me tell you a better way. It burned out my counselor, that’s the first thing. We cannot have our counselors tied into a schedule all day long. They’re not able to respond when needed. And the second biggest issue is exactly what you said the teacher has no idea what’s going on. The teacher needs to be teaching these lessons, but we have to provide the time for the training and for the planning and for the review before they’re act asked to do that.

Chrissy Beltran  26:31

So then, if a school is trying to implement SEL as a school wide approach, is what they’re going to do the school what is like the first step they could take? How do they go about making this a process that teachers might be responsive to? Because that’s, you know, big learning requires big commitment, and so, you know, how can they go about making this work at their schools? What’s like the first couple of things they could

Lana Penley  26:53

do? The first thing I did is that I brought together a small group of our leadership team. Hey, this is what I’m thinking. What do you think about it and and what, what, how do you think, what are some things you think we need to do to make it successful? And so that was kind of the first part. We looked at these different curriculums, and then we made a choice, and I gave them a commitment. We were doing it for three years, and we were not changing. And that was huge, because of initiative overload. What do we focus on? I can’t tell you how many schools I go into, and I say, what is your number one focus? And most people don’t know, but I’ll say, how many do you have? And they can list them, right? Yeah, yes. And we had 18 different things we were doing 18 when we started, we narrowed that to four, and everything was under the social and emotional learning umbrella that’s and then everything has to be organized. It is hard if you haven’t done this, right? There was no there was no guidebook when we did it. That’s why we made a lot of mistakes. And the only reason we started was the fire, right? We were forced to do this, but now everybody’s been through the crisis of COVID, and we’re all left with that. And so we’ve all been through our own version of a fire. But there is a there is a guidebook, and I am glad to jump on a call to help anybody that wants to figure this out, and I can help you understand how it has to be all in encompassing and all of these different steps.

Chrissy Beltran  28:26

Yeah, yeah. I like that, getting the team together. I like you know, the above, the idea of saying this is where we’re headed for three years, this is our thing, because I have had that same conversation with teachers. Can you tell me what your principal believes in? Can you tell me what they are wanting to work towards. What is your school trying to accomplish? And then some of them have told me, You know what? That’s a really good question. I don’t know. And I you know some sometimes new principals, it can be a lot. And sure they’re like trying to do all the things that they’re being asked to do. And so I can remember one teacher telling me, you know, I remember with a previous principal, she’d say, the beginning of the year, this is what we’re we’re working on. This is our thing this year. And everybody would just work towards that thing together. But now I couldn’t tell you what we’re working on and and I think it is initiative overload, because we’re trying to find answers, but we can’t just throw all these different solutions at things, because things take time to work. We can’t, that’s right, you won’t see progress of something if you’re starting something new every single

Lana Penley  29:25

year. Yeah, yeah. And we were talking about this caring for the adult. When we look at principal turnover, and the amount of turnover these schools are experiencing when they’re getting new principal after new principal, the average, I think last I saw tenure, was about three years for a principal in a school. My guess is even less for our Title One schools, which my school was, Title One. How are they ever going to get their footing? And then you have some teachers that will be there 20 years, and they’re like, yeah, here’s another principal. You know, number five or number six. I’ll wait them out. I. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it’s just really messy, and SEL can be a way, like I said, to be that bridge from this is where we are right now. You get in that meeting, this is where we are right now. This is where we want to be in three to four years. And what do we want that bridge to look like, to get us there and then stay on that bridge?

Chrissy Beltran  30:19

Yeah, I like that. How can keep people, keep on learning from you if they want to learn more about this, or if they wanted to participate in one of those calls that you

Lana Penley  30:26

mentioned? Yeah, yeah, um, were they basically on in the short, easy answer, you can go to my website, www, dot unlocking. Scl.com, join the newsletter. There’s resources, blogs, posts and information about my book, but if you’re ready to fast track and want to get your colleagues and staff to a better place really quick, have your school leader reach out to me and schedule a meeting call with lana.com How about that? I was impressed. I learned how to do that one. Um, because I have a keynote called burnout to balance that I’m really delivering and helping schools and teachers. Can leave that keynote in two hours with some really specific strategies that they can begin to implement right away. In addition, I talk with the principal about these ideas and help them come to some mind shift about what SEL can look like. So that’d be the two ways that I

Chrissy Beltran  31:19

would recommend Awesome. Thank you so much. All right, my

Lana Penley  31:23

pleasure. Thank you for having me, and thank you for the work you’ve been doing. Oh, of course,

Chrissy Beltran  31:32

I really enjoyed that conversation with Lana. I mean, for one, she brings a really good energy, right? And for another, I love the honest talk about the challenges that that we face as we are trying to implement these new things, and the tips about how to make this something that your school can really grow with, that can be supportive of people at all levels. Because isn’t that what we need? That’s what we’re missing. It’s not just what the kids went through or have gone through, or the trauma that they bring. We are adults with lots of baggage from different things, and that affects the way we interact with our job and our students. And so I just love that approach. I think that if you adopt it, you could see some real change over time. If you do want to grab that classroom management support for instructional coaches again, you can get it at buzzing with Miss B Com Slash, Episode 232, next week, we are continuing our series about school wide behavior and management practices that actually work with an episode about behavior de escalation, because coaches are often the person who is called in to support teachers through some difficult behaviors or support kids through difficult behaviors, and we’re often not trained on how to do that. So I’m going to interview my guest Sam Palmer Lee about that next week, and until then, happy coaching. Now that you’ve got so much to think about, head over to buzzing with Miss b.com to grab some free downloads, become a VIBee and check out the podcast show notes. Happy coaching!