Supporting Burned Out Teachers with Amber Harper, ep. 206

Supporting Burned Out Teachers with Amber Harper, ep. 206, Instructional Coaching with Ms. B Podcast

Chrissy Beltran  00:01

When I work with new coaches, the two words they use to describe themselves most often are excited and nervous. Even to an experienced coach, the New Year can bring butterflies and back to school nightmares figuring out what to do to set yourself up for a successful year can feel like putting together a puzzle when you don’t know what the picture looks like. Instead, let’s start the year with a roadmap that tells you exactly what to do each day for the so very important first 20 days of school. The things you do the first month of school will make or break your coaching year. Let’s do the right things together. Head to buzzing with Miss b.com/startup to join instructional coaching startup, This course teaches you what to do each day for the first 20 days of school with a short video and all of the resources you’ll need to set coaching goals, define your role, communicate with administrators, build relationships with teachers, understand your school’s needs and so much more, join instructional coaching startup today and get your game plan for instructional coaching. I even have a private Facebook group for startup coaches, where we work through the course one day at a time together. You can share artifacts, you can ask questions and get so much information about your coaching role by supporting each other inside of that Facebook group. So head to buzzing with Miss b.com/startup and join instructional coaching startup today.

Chrissy Beltran  01:23

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Chrissy Beltran  02:09

Welcome to instructional coaching with Miss B, where we believe that every teacher deserves a coach, and every coach does too. I’m Chrissy Beltran, an elementary teacher who became a coach, and I had to create my own coaching program that worked. Now I teach coaches how to design their coaching programs, build a school wide action plan and use differentiated strategies to support teachers. Plus, I’ve got a special spot in my heart for literacy coaches. Now let’s dig into the Episode.

Chrissy Beltran  02:35

Hey coach and welcome to episode 205. How instructional coaches can support burned out teachers with Amber Harper, one of the questions I’ve gotten more than any other throughout this last couple of years is about working with teachers who have absolutely had it and they’re just not energized or loving teaching anymore. We frequently hear that teachers are burned out and schools are trying random things like throwing spaghetti against a wall to see if it sticks. Instructional Coaches can often feel helpless to support teachers in this position, because we can’t always change the causes of the burnout. So what can we do today? Amber Harper, of the burned in teacher, is joining me on the podcast to talk about exactly that. So welcome to the podcast, Amber,

Amber Harper  03:19

thank you so much for having me. Chrissy, I’m so honored to be here. Well, I

Chrissy Beltran  03:22

am so thankful that you’re here, because this topic is so important. And before we dig into how coaches can support burned out teachers, I would love to get to know you a little better, and for the coaches to get to know you a little better. So as a quick way to introduce yourself, Would you tell us who do you help and how do you spend most of your time and energy at work.

Amber Harper  03:41

Sure, I spend most of my day with kindergarteners, so five and six year olds some four whenever they join me in the fall. And I’ve been doing I’ve been teaching kindergarten for three years, but I’ve been in education, serving students in the elementary level from K through fifth grade, since 2007

Chrissy Beltran  04:00

nice my daughter is in kindergarten this year, actually.

Amber Harper  04:03

Oh my gosh, it goes so fast. Yes,

Chrissy Beltran  04:07

yeah, it really it’s shocking to me that this has already happened, but she does love it. She is happy at her school, and so it’s been a good experience, good. So my other question is maybe not essential, but I’m curious. I’m just asking to know you questions of my guests. So what is your favorite hot drink

Amber Harper  04:26

right now? My favorite hot drink is peach tea, peach ginger tea with some green tea in the morning, mixed with some honey. And I alternate that sometimes with rice, mushroom coffee. So depending on how I feel in the morning. I used to be a big coffee drinker, but in the last couple of years, I’ve kind of gotten away from it. I never, I never, ever imagined I would say that, but, uh, but those are my favorite right now.

Chrissy Beltran  04:53

Very nice. That’s an interesting choice. I’m actually I have coffee right now, like, literally with me at the table. Literally,

Amber Harper  05:00

how, though,

Chrissy Beltran  05:01

how do you drink coffee?

Amber Harper  05:04

I drink it right now. While we’re doing this,

Chrissy Beltran  05:08

I know it’s evening right now, and I may regret it, but I you can sleep like two hours ago, so I’m barely getting okay now. So that’s part of the problem. Um, usually I do like a decaf in the evening, but this is not a decaf because I made it at like four o’clock.

Amber Harper  05:22

Wow. Well, good for you for still being able to get in bed and sleep. Hopefully, we’ll

Chrissy Beltran  05:27

see. Yeah, we’ll see. I generally don’t make it to bed, you know, until like 1030 anyway, so, and that’s if I’m forcing my I’m a night owl, like I mentioned. So I think we’ll be okay. We’ll find out tomorrow. I’ve

Amber Harper  05:38

been at grandma since I was so, so young. I’ve always been the first one in bed, first one asleep. Definitely not an owl, but I love to get up early, so

Chrissy Beltran  05:48

I wish I did, and see that’s probably one of your strategies. I’m guessing is about it actually is. I would imagine that would be important for burned out teachers and for any coach and teacher, because, yeah, if you don’t get enough sleep, you just don’t feel good about anything. So okay, that actually brings us to our topic today. What does it mean when we say a teacher is burned out, and what are some of the main causes of burnout? This

Amber Harper  06:13

is a great place to start. So one thing I like to start with is that burnout is a type of depression. So you’re going to see a lot of the same symptoms, signs and symptoms in someone who is burned out as someone who is experiencing mild, moderate or severe depression. You’re gonna have someone who’s not motivated. They’re not seeing the point and doing what, what they are doing every day. They don’t get excited about a whole lot, about things that they used to get excited about they’re easily they’re easily frustrated, they’re easily overwhelmed, anxious, and they just have lost their lust for what it is that they’re doing every day. And they sometimes describe themselves as like, feeling like they’re on a hamster wheel and that they can’t get off or that, you know, they’re going at a pace that they just can’t sustain. They’re extremely tired, they’re moody, and you you see physically, a difference in them. You see a difference in their facial Express expressions, and their ability to get excited and to want to do things differently is very, very difficult, and we can go into this a little bit later, but there are actually three types that I’ve identified, one of them being burned and over it, being that kind of you’ve turned into a negative Nancy, like you’re always focusing on the negative burden. And balance being that you’re just extremely overwhelmed by all there is to do. There’s not enough time to do it, and all you do is talk about how overwhelmed you are, and you really don’t know where to start. Every day when you sit down at your desk and the other is burned and bored. So this is where you seem to have it all figured out, but you really need a challenge, and you just don’t know what that challenge is, and you might be kind of shaming yourself into saying everything’s good. Why do I feel so unsatisfied? Why is it that I’m just feeling so discontent? So that’s what I have experienced in my life, whenever I was experience experiencing burnout, and that is what I still see in so many teachers. And the causes can be for various various different reasons, because everybody’s so different. Personalities are different, triggers are different, and people’s ability to cope is different. And but a lot of the main, main reasons that people are struggling come down to about the same, 345, things, and that is an administrator that is not supported, not supportive, or they feel unsupported by their team, or their school district or their work culture. The incredible amount of work that they are doing essentially for free after their contract hours student behavior has become a huge reason for teachers becoming burned out and a lack of personal growth. They just feel like, you know, I’ve been doing the same thing for so long. I’ve gotten so good at it. I have so many great skills. I’m so great with kids, but there’s, there seems no, you know, quote, unquote, ladder decline like there’s, there’s no way for me to move up and feel like I’m growing professionally and personally.

Chrissy Beltran  09:11

That’s so interesting. And I really like the way you shared those three different types of burnout. Because I think that, you know, looking back, we could probably see moments where we have felt the that way at different points in our career, right? I’m thinking that burnout is for like, an extended period of time,

Amber Harper  09:26

exactly, okay, exactly. Everybody’s going to have a bad day,

Chrissy Beltran  09:29

yeah, yeah, or even a week, or a few weeks, but I can remember not being super excited about things. I’m generally an excited person, and I always have something to look forward to, but I can remember not being excited about something every so often, that’s, you know, like you go through those kind of a melancholy faith, yeah, yeah. Well, and a lot of a lot

Amber Harper  09:48

of different teachers are in different seasons of life. And I think that’s one that one thing about identifying burnout and empathizing and sympathizing with people who are struggling is that we only see a small piece of. Life at school, and I know that we’ll get into this where we talk about how coaches, you know are approaching teachers who are burned out, or whether there’s resistance, but we see such a small glimmer or glimpse into people’s lives, and depending on the season that you know a person is in in their life outside of school, that can dramatically affect their burnout at school. They may also be experiencing burnout at home. Maybe, you know, they’ve got lots of young kids at home, you know, biological children, or, you know, children with their partner, and then they’re also teaching littles at school, so there’s never any downtime from all of that neediness that can definitely cause burnout. And I think that that’s a part of the solution that often gets overlooked is not just looking at the things that are challenging teachers at a school level, but also what could be challenging them outside of school that’s keeping them from seeking solutions that are holistically helping a teacher to recover.

Chrissy Beltran  10:58

So then, if this is happening like you say, we only do see a piece of people at work. How can a coach notice the warning signs, like, what do they need to be looking for to help them recognize that a teacher is heading down the path towards burnout?

Amber Harper  11:12

Sure you may see them always rushing around, not being really ever prepared. Maybe that slight or very noticeable twinge of negativity, maybe rolling eyes, maybe just kind of sitting quietly again. Everybody’s personality and the way that they deal with that resistance is very, very different. You may actually see teachers physically crying from that overwhelm. You may see them, you know, either lightly or very outwardly, lashing out and in sort of defense mode if they’re if they’re struggling again, it’s really difficult to say, you know that all situations, you will see all of these behaviors. But what it really comes down to is teachers being resistant because they feel like there is already so much to do, and now you’re going to give me more to do and more to think about, and I don’t have any room in all of my tabs are open. I have no more rooms for any more tabs and but like I said, teachers will express that in very different ways.

Chrissy Beltran  12:19

Yeah, yeah. And so then, how could we go about distinguishing, you know, resistance because they don’t want to work with you, just because they don’t want to work with you, or resistance because they’re burned out. Like, how can we as coaches kind of

Amber Harper  12:33

tell the difference? Yeah, and I think too, I want to say this too, is that there’s always that, there’s always that fear, or there could be that fear of being judged. You know, this person is coming into my classroom and judging the way that I lead. They’re judging the way that I teach. They’re judging the way that I do things. And you know, if it’s a new teacher, you’re already stepping into a classroom and you’re feeling really inadequate, because you really do get thrown to the wolves as a brand new teacher. And on the other hand, you may be a teacher that’s been teaching five, six, you know, 1015, years, and they really made me feel like they’ve got a lot of good things going on, and I don’t need somebody to come in here and tell me what to do. When I know that the intention of a coach is not necessarily to do that, then, you know, that could be a really tricky situation to try to navigate. I

Chrissy Beltran  13:25

agree. And in some cases, in certain schools, coaches are only assigned to work with work with teachers who had has been decided that they are struggling for one reason or another. And I think, yeah, that alone sets up a huge, I mean, just you’re, you’re, like, a shame of it, yes,

Amber Harper  13:41

yeah, you’re

Chrissy Beltran  13:42

coming. You have to build up the trust to like a normal human level before anybody’s willing to accept your help, because many people, obviously, you don’t want to be the person pegged as being on the list of teachers who needed the help. And then anybody you go to work with is perceived, and they themselves perceive themselves as being like a struggling teacher. And so that’s right, we can coaches. Can build the kind of like learning community that we all learn together. We all partner up, we all work together and grow. Then we can set the stage for some good work. But whenever we’re working from, you know, this really negative definition of coaching, then it’s very hard to create a positive outcome,

Amber Harper  14:20

absolutely 100%

Chrissy Beltran  14:23

so then, so, then, how does, what does that look like? Can you share a little bit about like, if a, if a teacher is burned out, and so it’s, it’s showing up as resistance, you know? And so it looks like, well, I’m avoiding the coach. Because sometimes, oh, I forgot your appointment, I forgot the appointment, I forgot the appointment, you know, day after day. Or, Oh, I left that at home. I left that at home. Sometimes they dodge it. Sometimes they outwardly, like, you mentioned eye rolling, you mentioned, like, thawing, or, like, you know, body language. You know, what can a coach do if that’s the situation?

Amber Harper  14:54

Yeah, I have to first point out that Isn’t it interesting how frustrated. What teachers get whenever students do this to them? Oh, yeah. But then it happens to coaches, right? It happens. It does all the time. And the biggest piece of somebody wanting to improve their life in any capacity could be teaching. It could be wellness. It could be, you know, feeling physically better. It could be, you know, taking care of any numerous things that you want to take care of in your life is that you have to have self awareness like that is the biggest key to self improvement in any area of your life. And when you are so incredibly burned out and you are so incredibly, almost apathetic to what is happening around you, because you just, you’re just seriously spiraling. Things are just kind of swirling around you and you, it’s almost like one of those money grab shows where you’re like, in that, you know, you’re like, in that safe and there’s, yeah, you’re in that box, and there’s money, and you’re just like, I just trying to grab at something. It it’s very, extremely hard if you’re also not self aware of your situation and where your where your weaknesses are and where your strengths are, because you don’t feel like you’re good at anything, that self awareness has to come internally from you, and that’s very hard whenever you have things coming at you externally trying to help you improve, and you don’t even know what it is that you want to improve, nor in some cases do you even care, because you’re just trying to survive every single day. So as a coach, and I tell many and I’m a coach too. I’m a teacher burnout coach. I’m not an instructional coach out of school, but the roles are really no different, and that is that you cannot force someone to change who doesn’t want to change. But it’s tricky, because in instructional coaches and reading coaches and math coaches situations, they are told by their leaders that you have to coach this person. You don’t have a choice where, when people come to me to get coached. They want that support. They want that help. They’re out there seeking, and that can get really, really murky and really, really difficult. So what I tell a lot of teachers that have been through my program who have read my book, and they’re like, Amber, I have changed so many things about my life, and I see so many things that are different, and I’m so extremely happy and more fulfilled, but I’m working in such a negative team or such a negative work culture. How can I help other people? Because that’s essentially what coaches want to do. They want to help like, that’s why you became an instructional coach in the first place. But it’s so difficult because you can’t just, you know, march into a teacher’s classroom and say, I have all this great stuff for you that is going to shut anybody down, even someone who’s not burned out, because they’re going to be like, Whoa, hold on a minute. And so my biggest advice for coaches are people who are seeking to support other people who they see struggling is to show up in many spaces and in many places in the school and just show up and just say hi or ask people how they’re doing, getting to know them again. Like I said earlier, it’s no different than building relationships with students who are apathetic, maybe a little lazy, maybe who don’t want to do anything differently. They’re happy with being who they are and what they’re doing, and they just don’t see the point in any of the help. So what you want to do is continue to show up for these teachers that are working so incredibly hard and are so overwhelmed and are so frustrated with many different facet of things that it could be and just continue to show up in these places and spaces, even when you’re not coaching them and just being present, like just being part of the team, the worst thing you can possibly do As a coach is to show up and say, Hi, I’m coaching you, and they know nothing about you. That is going to be the hardest bridge to build that you’ve ever built in your life, because in a lot of cases, and you know it’s so it’s so hard to say this, they don’t want they don’t want you there, right? If a teacher is burned out, they don’t, and it’s not personal. And I think that’s the another really, there’s so many different layers of difficulty to the coaching profession. If somebody doesn’t want you there, it’s not because they don’t want Chrissy there. It’s that they don’t want anybody there telling them what to do, because that’s what they think you’re going to do, right? So the second piece of this is asking a lot of questions about what they want and what they feel their strengths are, and always starting with strengths, what do you feel you’re really good at awesome and continuing like taking notes on those things and checking in on the good stuff that they feel like they’re. Doing first, so that they then eventually. And this is not going to happen overnight. This is definitely a marathon, not a sprint, that they will eventually start to open up to you about the things that they’re struggling with. Some people are are more willing to open up and be vulnerable than other people, and not all teachers are created equal in that way, like I mentioned earlier a couple of times, we’re all different. We’re different personalities, we’re different comfort levels, we’re different. We’ve struggled with different relationships with other coaches and other administrators in the past, that maybe we’ve been burned, maybe we have opened up and been vulnerable, and it came back and bit us, and we’re like, I’m never doing that again. So just continuing to show up and ask questions and being present. You know, the same thing I tell a lot of administrators are like, How can I support my teachers better? And I say, Take laps around your school every day. Get out of your office. Be somebody who you almost expect to see in your classroom every day, just taking a walk through. You’re not you don’t have your computer, you don’t have your phone out, you’re just walking around, or you’re just popping your head in to say, Hey, how’s it going today? And it takes time. It takes time to build that relationship. It takes time to build that trust. But especially with somebody who is hurting, they need even more love. They need even more nurturing. They need even more kind of, like a like a pre supportive relationship before you’re actually sitting down to talk about that hard stuff. And I know that that might not be the answer you want to hear, because we all want a quick fix. We all want to win an overnight solution. But when you’re dealing especially in a profession that is so fraught with with burnout and people who are tired and underpaid and feeling underappreciated and over judged, it has to be a very it has to be treated as delicately as it really is. Mm, hmm, yeah.

Chrissy Beltran  21:55

No, I totally agree with that, with your response, because I think that it is on the coach. It is the coach’s responsibility to build the bridge to the teacher. That’s just how it is. It doesn’t matter if it’s right. It doesn’t matter if everybody should welcome you, and it doesn’t matter all of that is irrelevant, because the reality is you have to build the bridge, just like as a teacher, it’s your responsibility to bridge the bridge to the kids. As the parent you are, the one you know as you’re the adulthood situation, and exactly that in a condescending way. But no, not at all the adult and you know you, if you’re responsible for coaching teachers, then you have to build a bridge to get to them. And that’s actually something that I have a free coaching resistant teachers, like a mini email course, a video course, and it teaches people to do that to build a bridge first, and you have to figure out how, what can you use to build a bridge? You have to get to know them and listen to little things and and start to ask the questions about their personal lives, not in the, you know, probing way, but like in a hey, how’s this going? Oh, I know so. And still plays baseball today this weekend, and you just have to start reaching out using whatever tools you’ve got, and, you know, maybe giving them some small wins and things like that, but you’ve got to show up on their radar positively,

Amber Harper  23:08

absolutely. And I will add to this too. As a coach, you are a bridge between your teachers and your administrators a lot of times too. So the you know, the reach also needs to be up. Makes making sure you’re communicating with your principal. And I, what I really respect about our instructional coach is she is so extremely visible to us as an entire staff. So, you know, I know all schools and all districts do things differently, but every Monday morning we have a late start, and we have, you know, some sort of PD or collaboration, and our coach is in front of us, coaching us about things, especially literacy. We’re moving to the science of reading, as many districts are, and she has been coaching us as an entire staff first. And what I think is so incredibly smart about that is that that puts her in a leadership role, in an instructionally, an instructional leadership role, where we have all had access to her as this umbrella. You know of hey, I’m here. I know these things. I’m willing to help you. You know you didn’t get to go to this training like I did. Let me share where you’re coming across as someone who’s willing to share all the knowledge that you have and all these strategies that you have, or you’re willing to dive in and find solutions or find strategies with the teacher who’s struggling like you are there as someone to help, not as someone to delegate a bunch of work to Mm, hmm, yes, I

Chrissy Beltran  24:35

you know Donald Miller talks about building trust, and he says that it requires empathy and credibility, and absolutely very true, like what you just said, somebody who has knowledge is willing to share, and if they don’t know, can say, Oh, I don’t know, let’s go look it up. Let’s go find this I can find this person as an expert or a resource for you. Yeah. And it doesn’t mean you tell everybody what to do, but it does mean you share the stuff that would be helpful when it would be appropriate to do that. Yeah,

Amber Harper  25:00

and our coach is stellar. I love her so much, and she’s so willing to say, You know what, I don’t know, but I’m gonna find, I’ll find an answer for you, and I’ll get back to you. And she always does, like she has proven time and time again that she is there as a really strong support for us. She’s not someone who’s there to just make us do a lot of stuff and to come in and judge us. And she’s also very like she, you know, she’s our instructional coach, but she has a math background, and our big focus this year and for a couple years to come is going to be literacy, for good reason. And she has, many times, been very vulnerable with us and saying, you know, I live as a, you know, second third grade, like I taught math in middle school. You know, I did all of these things in math, and my strength is always in math. So I’m learning along with you, and I’m just excited to share everything with you that I that I want to learn. So another tip for for any coach out there is to be vulnerable. You know, it builds street cred when you say I don’t know, and I’m willing to find out for you, because the last thing anybody wants burned out or not is someone coming in pretending like they know everything, because we all know you don’t like nobody knows everything so, and no one’s going to experience teaching the way that you are right now, either. Mm, hmm,

Chrissy Beltran  26:16

yeah. So then, in terms of you mentioned the different ways that people are burned out, like you said, burned out and over it, right? You talked about three to about three different things. Is there a difference in the way that we should approach people depending on what kind of symptoms they’re demonstrating?

Amber Harper  26:29

Yes, 100% I love this question so much, because this really gets into, like the meats and potatoes of why this one size fits all. If you’re burned out, here are the five things you can do, because not everybody is struggling for the same reason. You may have a teacher who is again burned and over it, who is fine with time management. They leave every day at contract time. They’re not taking any work home with them. No problems there, but their attitude just sucks the life out of the room and they just, they go to work, they teach. They might be great with the kids, but they’re really struggling with relationships, relationships with other teachers in their team. They just don’t seem to want to connect with anybody, and they certainly don’t want to help anybody else out. That is a totally different type of burnout with totally different solutions than someone who is burnt and burnt and unbalanced and who really loves teaching like they love being at school, but they are exhausted because they feel like they have no downtime. They are so incredibly dedicated to their profession that they have let it consume their lives, and they are taking things home, and they are working until six o’clock every night, and they are grading on nights and weekends, and planning and prepping and missing, you know, out on different events, or they’re never fully present for their family or their friends, or they don’t even do anything with their friends anymore. They’ve missed out on the hobbies they used to enjoy. Maybe their physical health is deteriorating because they’re not taking care of themselves. That’s a I mean, you can see right there, that’s two totally different types of struggle that you’re dealing with. And then, on the other hand, you may have someone who’s burned and bored, who has a great attitude. You know, they have bad days. Not everybody has, you know, a perfect life every single day, but they have great time management skills. They’re happy to help people. They have great boundaries everything. Like, you look at this teacher and you just think, they’ve got, you know, everything’s going on for this person, but they are not feeling challenged in the ways that they want to be challenged. Maybe they have become, again, burned and bored. Maybe they’re, they’re becoming bored with the day ins and day outs. They have all these amazing systems, but now it’s like, Okay, I’m ready for something new. But, you know, maybe they don’t want to be a principal. Maybe they, you know, maybe they don’t want to, you know, climb that ladder. Maybe it’s just a different grade level, maybe it’s a different district, maybe it’s a different school, maybe it’s a different principal, or in some cases, maybe it is going back and getting your master’s in administration or in counseling, or you’re getting your special ed degree, or vice versa. Maybe you’ve been teaching special ed for so many years, and maybe your change is you want to go into the general ed classroom. And I think what sometimes happens, and especially what is glorified online and on social media, is that if you’re burned out, your only solution is to quit teaching. Yeah, like there’s no hope for you in this career. And I call BS on that, because I’ve quit teaching twice, and I’ve left teaching twice, and I’ve returned on my own accord, because I wanted to, because I knew that this is the career that I have wanted, and I had to make shifts though, that were right for me and my burnout type, though, because I’ve been all three. I. And I know from personal experience, you know, again, as someone who’s left twice in return twice, that the way that we handle our own burnout is so incredibly personal and so incredibly important, because if we follow other people’s advice for what worked for them, but we’re like, that’s really what I’m struggling with. You know, that’s that’s just not going to help anybody. And there are so many different ways to move through this challenge of burnout, because it just goes back to how incredibly personal it is. And you know, as instructional coaches, this is something that you could potentially tap into that isn’t in itself instructional, but can help to reignite that passion, or help to reignite that curiosity or that desire to get better, because we’re talking more about the personal things that are dragging the teacher down, or, you know, these different feelings or situations that they’ve been dealing with in isolation that they haven’t felt like they could really open up to anybody and talk to about. The other assumption is that people have support at home, where not everybody does. So you could be, you could be that person that consistently shows up as a supportive entity in a in a life or in a work culture, or in an environment that otherwise they have felt really isolated and like they couldn’t open up about what they’re struggling with specifically.

Chrissy Beltran  31:35

So then, if we are building this relationship over time, and we’re seeing these behaviors like this, could just even lead to a conversation about, so how are you feeling about your teaching and like, getting them to open up and talk a little bit about about what they’re dealing with? Because if they are overtly negative, and I know people who have been like, overtly negative for years, like 20 years, you know, and it becomes a habit, yeah, I think it’s now the way they communicate, period, is how they talk. And so, you know, it’s hard to tell sometimes with those people, are you having a hard time, or are you just, that’s just you now, you know, yeah, is that just your communication style or or the people who are bored? That’s very subtle. You’re not going to see it necessarily. And so if you don’t have a conversation with them and talk about, well, what are you thinking like? What are you thinking you want to do next year? Do you want to stay, you know, and teach the same grade level? Are you thinking about a move and, you know, so asking having those conversations is a way to start opening doors to really figuring out what’s going on and what you can do to be supportive. 100% 100% thank you so much for sharing about that. I think that’s super interesting. So then, in your experience and working with, you know, with teachers from different places, I know you’ve, you’ve, you know, you supported teachers from all over. What are some things that schools are trying to do to support teachers who are burned out, that are just not working, that just don’t work at all? Yeah,

Amber Harper  32:56

I think, Well, I think it’s really important for schools to focus on wellness. Wellness means different things to different people, and so putting a bunch of teachers in a circle and telling them that we’re going to talk about mental health today, or telling teachers, you know, we’re going to do yoga or we’re going to do some meditation together, is so extremely unhelpful, because as as much as I love taking care of myself, I do not love to meditate. That is not something that I have adopted, nor is it something right now that I’m even really interested in. All that’s going to do for teachers who are either struggling or not, is say you have no idea what I need, and so they make assumptions, you know, just like we talked about earlier, you know, schools making assumptions about what their teachers need in order to focus on their well being, without actually asking and having conversations with them on a personal and professional level about what the school can actually do to support them, whether it’s at a building level or a district level, if you never ask what people want or what people need, they will never tell you, and you’re still gonna have people who aren’t honest and don’t open up about what they want, right and then essentially complain about Not having what they want or what they need. But there are some people who will, who will open up and who will say what they need, and a lot of times, because I know the next question you’re going to ask me, What are schools doing that will, that has been working, is number one, asking, like, what do you want? What do you need for me? What do you want for me? How can I be better? You know, if it’s in, oh my gosh, I cannot believe I skipped this part. Send a Google Form to all of your teachers and ask them to evaluate you, like, ask them in maybe not so many terms, but say, hey, what could I do? And this could be anonymous, or you could ask for emails, whatever. What is it that. I can do to serve you. What would you what would your ideal role of mine be as your coach? What would you love to see me do more of? What would you like to see me do less of? What is it that I prove you know, whatever in any capacity of whatever you’re comfortable asking schools can do this too, like schools have to get vulnerable if they want their teachers to be We can’t continue putting blinders on and pretending that we’re doing everything perfectly and we’re doing everything right. We have everything figured out, like I see so many districts doing, and we’re going to stay the course, and we’re just going to keep chugging along when people are crying out for help in so many different ways. And so one thing I’ve seen districts do is send out those surveys, you know, doing a climate audit that is huge to help you to get some serious honest feedback about your school’s culture. Another thing is showing up those administrators, coaches, counselors, like constantly being seen in the classrooms and in the hallways and students knowing them. You know another the worst thing you could do is have a principal or a counselor or a dean walk into a classroom everybody’s like, either who is that or who’s in trouble? Yeah? You know, yeah,

Chrissy Beltran  36:16

for sure.

Amber Harper  36:17

So being visible is super, super important being inspirational is, is something that is not only so important to me, but so important to our profession we need to and I’m not talking about positive, toxic, I’m sorry, toxic positivity, right? Not like we got this guys, but sharing strategies on how we can you know, how we can inspire ourselves and how we can inspire each other to do, do and feel better in a profession that’s so incredibly difficult. I always say being bold. You know, we need administrators and districts that are bold and do things that need to be done, even if it’s not the easiest thing, and that is so incredibly hard. And lastly, the thing that I’ll say that schools are doing that’s working is they really are giving teachers time to do their work inside of their contract hours. You know, whether or not you’re burned and bored, burned and over it, or burned and unbalanced, you need time for different things. We need time to just sit and process. Sometimes. We time to just sit and eat our lunch without scarfing it down, just to process what has happened that day. We need time to do all of this incredible work that we do. We need time to communicate and collaborate with other people about things that maybe aren’t school related, just connecting with one another. And, you know, we’re not machines, we’re not robots, and sometimes we’re treated as such, with no emotions or, you know, no need for rest, even within the school day. And some of the best gifts that I’ve ever gotten from my principals or my schools is, you know, we don’t have PD today, you’re just allowed to work in your classrooms, and we trust you to do what needs to be done. And that is, that is the best gift that I’ve ever been given.

Chrissy Beltran  38:15

Yeah, as you were talking about what schools do that that doesn’t work. I know that I have as a teacher, like, we would have certain events at different times of the year supposed to be kind of like pep rallies. And that that stuff doesn’t do it for me. Some people actually really like that stuff, which always shocks me, because to me, I’m like, oh, biggest waste of time. And I always felt like, if I could just be ready, I would feel good, but I’m here, so I’m not ready, you know? And that would used to kill me. And so I even if I was learning something new, but it was relevant and valuable, and it would help me be ready and be better than I would be. I would feel great, but sitting in a room, rah, rah, whatever, I don’t care about that. That doesn’t do it for me at all. And so that was very frustrating, and always felt like a huge time suck. We had to drive across town to, like, the university, and it was, you know, out of there, in the in the huge, like this huge gym, and it was massive, and all the employees just awful. And I just, those are some of the worst i If I could have called in on that day without being really obvious, I would have done it every year.

Amber Harper  39:17

Yeah. And a lot of teachers do, yeah,

Chrissy Beltran  39:19

yeah. And then they hear about it, because it’s a lot of money they’re spending on this thing, but doesn’t do anything for anybody or for very few, maybe, yeah.

Amber Harper  39:29

So imagine this, though, imagine being, I’m the keynote speaker that is sometimes standing in front of these teachers. It is so incredibly hard for me to stand in front of my own people, because I know exactly what they’re thinking. It is so challenging. Speaking to a group of teachers, no matter how big or small, is so incredibly intimidating, because, you know, they would rather be anywhere but in that place. So I totally feel you there.

Chrissy Beltran  39:56

It’s a much smaller group, but I’ve done like summer PD workshops. And they’re like, in July, yeah, like, like, you just know that the people I know had to put on pants to kind of work today, had to wake up early. And, yeah, so it is that is tough. But I do love, I love the idea that really it’s about treating people or teachers as people, and getting to know them as

Amber Harper  40:24

Yes, connecting with I mean, all this comes back to our entire conversation is, you know, treating people on a human level, right? Like realizing, yes, we’re teachers, but we’re humans, and we’re experiencing lots of different things coming at us every single day, personal, professional, internal, like, there’s a lot going on, and I think the more that we can empathize with that human, you know, that human part of us, rather than always going to the teacher part of us, I think the better off everybody’s going to be, including our students. Yes,

Chrissy Beltran  40:56

that should be like, the the caption for this episode, that was perfect. Really good. So thank you so much for everything that you’ve shared today. And then how can people go on learning from you

Amber Harper  41:10

sure you can go to burnin teacher.com and learn all about, you know, my story and how I created burned in teacher and what I do to support teachers. And if you do want to take that quiz, you can go to burned in, teacher.com/burnout, quiz, I learn your burnout type, and then you can follow me on any social media platform at burned in. Teacher,

Chrissy Beltran  41:28

perfect. Thank you so much for being here today.

Amber Harper  41:31

Thank you so much for having me. Chrissy, it was a delight talking about this. I know it sounds weird, but I love talking about burnout because it’s such an incredibly important topic, and I don’t think that enough people are talking about it in a productive way. Yeah.

Chrissy Beltran  41:45

Productive keyword, yes, yeah, thank you. Imagine that treat teachers like people. That’s a good tip. Take that one back to your admin. Okay, coaches, I really hope that you enjoyed that episode. I really did too, having been the burned and unbalanced teacher towards the end of my time in the classroom, that’s not why I left. You probably have heard the story of why I left, if you’ve been listening long enough, why I left the classroom, but that definitely was something that was starting to happen. I could feel it happening. And so I just so glad that Amber is sharing this information with teachers and helping them kind of get a handle on what is going on and understand why they’re feeling the way that they’re feeling. Was really good stuff. If you want to grab that coaching resistant teachers, free video. Course you can do that at buzzing with Miss B Com Slash resistance, and that’s freebie. It’s like a five day video. Course it will come into your inbox and it’ll teach you exactly what to do to get teachers who are not excited about working with you at least a little more pleased with the idea of working with your little more less resistant to the idea of working with you. I also have something that Amber mentioned in our interview. I have these surveys for teacher feedback. So if you go to buzzing with Miss b.com and check the shop, you can look for the teacher feedback surveys. You can even just search for survey, and it should pop up. And so these are forms that you can use with teachers to get their feedback on your work, on how they’re doing, on their goals, and what they’re working on, all different kinds of things. So definitely check that out. They’re great for serving teachers at various times in the year, and figure out what you can do to respond. Next week, we’re going to keep digging into our topics, relationships, resistance and rookies. That is the theme for this month. I’m really excited to share this theme with you, because I think it’s such an important topic. And until we come back next week, happy coaching!

Chrissy Beltran  43:46

Now that you’ve got so much to think about, head over to buzzing with Miss b.com to grab some free downloads, become a VIBee and check out the podcast. Show Notes. Happy coaching!