Data & Assessments: A Coaching Call with Stacy Amsden, Ep. 172 Instructional Coaching with Ms. B

Data & Assessments: A Coaching Call with Stacy Amsden, Ep. 172 Buzzing with Ms. B: The Coaching Podcast

Chrissy Beltran  00:00

Spending time in classrooms is one of the most impactful ways we can support teachers and grow our schools. But all of that classroom work can result in tons of documentation that really goes nowhere. If you’ve got piles of sticky notes all over your desk and random collections of fonts and all of your apps, it’s time to consolidate Connecthub.io is a platform created by coaches. For coaches. It’s designed to help you organize your notes as you meet with educators and get powerful data on your impact in their classrooms. You can also use this information to support their professional learning and growth. Connecthub.io includes great features to help you protect the coach teacher relationship by providing different levels of account access for sharing only what you want with administrators. You can also customize reports to share specific kinds of information with your admin. This is such a great software for coaches. Check it out today at Connecthub.io to simplify your instructional coaching with a free trial. As a literacy coach at an elementary school, I spent so much time trying to find the perfect supplemental resources for my teachers. That’s why I am so excited to share a special resource with you today. decodable texts are essential for students who are working on mastering phonics and primary grades especially, I have come across the sweetest decodable books that I love and my kindergarten daughter loves them to. They’re called Express readers. Each book has a complete storyline includes fun and funny characters like bug and duck. And the stories are engaging and increasing complexity over time as to the words and sentence structures on each page. Sticky words are identified in each book to help children with words they aren’t able to decode yet, or those with irregular spelling patterns. There’s a perfect resource for giving students at your school the practice they need and applying phonics skills, head to express readers.org and visit the Decodable Books page. There you can download a quick keys guide with teaching tips for each book, including teaching sticky word mapping, you can also get free sample decodable sent to your address, head to express readers.org If you’re building your phonics instruction, and you’re ready for some really great readers

Chrissy Beltran  02:11

you’re listening to buzzing with Miss B the coaching podcast where we believe that every teacher deserves a coach. And every coach does too. I’m Chrissy Beltran, an instructional coach, resource creator and coffee enthusiast, and I’m your host, stay tuned for practical tips and honest coaching talk that will help you coach with confidence.

Chrissy Beltran  02:35

Hey, coach, and welcome to episode 172 data and assessments, a coaching call with a coach in the field. Today, you get to listen into a coaching call as I do a little problem solving with a coach about data and assessments and how to support these ideas through her PLCs. I love sharing these episodes with you. I think that they’re full of realistic challenges that coaches face every day. I also want to help you look at data with your teacher. So I have a free data bookmark that you can use, you can grab it buzzing with Miss b.com slash episode 172 and scroll down there, grab that free data bookmark because it’ll give you some things to talk about with teachers when you’re looking at data, getting teachers to dig into data and be really thoughtful about how we assess and use that information is so important. It’s a major part of the teaching cycle. And sometimes teachers just haven’t been asked to think differently about how they use it or they haven’t really been prepared with the tools that they need to do it well. So I can’t wait to talk about this important idea with my guest. I know you’ll walk away with something valuable that you can try out tomorrow. So welcome, Stacey. I’m so glad that you’re able to join me today.

Stacy Amsden  03:41

I’m so happy to be here. I’m very honored. Oh,

Chrissy Beltran  03:44

well. Thank you. Would you like to share a little bit about yourself and your coaching work?

Stacy Amsden  03:49

Um, well, my name is Stacy amston. I am a coach in Washington State. And this is my second year of coaching. I’ve been in education since 2005. So I started when I was 26. I’m 45 now so I’m gonna do the math there. But yeah, it’s I started my teaching career in Arizona. That’s where I’m originally from. And I’ve also taught in Oklahoma. So I’ve had quite a good experience teaching at a variety of schools. So I’m in Arizona charter schools are very popular. So I taught at a lot of charter schools helped to get those accredited, so got that experience. In Oklahoma, I worked at a Christian school. And currently I work at a public school. So I’ve had a lot of good experiences and I’ve learned a lot along the way so and decided to step out of the classroom. And here I am an instructional coach. So I still have a lot to learn. So I’m so excited to be here with you.

Chrissy Beltran  04:58

Oh, thank you. Yeah. I mean, the role of a coach is definitely unique. And it does look different everywhere. So what kinds of things do you do as a coach that really make up the majority of your role? So,

Stacy Amsden  05:10

um, I would say PLCs are something that is constantly worked on in our district and talked about a lot. We’re going to, we’re already talking about how we want to change the focus of PLCs, in the 2024 2025. school year, so we’re already talking about that, and student goals and assessments. But definitely collaborating with teachers building those relationships and maintaining those relationships, that’s a big part of my role, being just visible and being in the classroom, and supporting them in their practice to just overall improve student outcomes, right. So I want them to see me as an advocate for them as well. So not as you know, I don’t want to be in that administrator role. Because sometimes I feel like, we’re looked at, like, as we’re like, assistant principals or something, so which is fine. But I really want to just be their partner, that’s like my goal as their coach, I want to be their partner, plan with them collaborate with them. Another thing our district wants us to do is co teaching. So that’s something that I continue to try to do. And that’s not that teachers don’t want to do it. It’s just something I don’t think that they know a lot about, right. So it’s something that I want to work on maybe in PDE next year to get that out there a little bit more. But, um, but yeah, just mainly being their partner and just, you know, in their practice and instructional practice, and just support them in those areas.

Chrissy Beltran  07:06

Yeah, I think that’s great. What you’ve described is a really common challenge for coaches is we tend to be put in these associate or assistant principal roles. And we’re sometimes asked to do things that are kind of borderline, and then teachers are looking at us, like, we’re kind of borderline and that makes it really hard to come at it with like, no, no, I’m here to support you. They’re like, Are you Are you here to support me or you’re gonna tattle on me, you know, so it’s kind of neat to be in those positions. And I feel like sometimes the we’re looking at data and assessments specifically today. Sometimes, once we start really zooming in on data, we can also be perceived as that administrative role. Because people automatically attach a little tag to data that says punishment, or you’re gonna tell me I’m a bad teacher or something like that, which is not what data should be doing. But it has been used as a weapon against teachers in the past.

Stacy Amsden  07:58

I definitely. I definitely agree with that wholeheartedly, because, I mean, like I said, I’ve only been out of the classroom for, you know, a year and a half now, almost two years. So. And data was a huge thing at the school that I came from where I was a teacher for four years, and we were a school of improvement. So we were constantly collecting data and turning data in on a weekly basis. And when you came in and had to share your data, and it wasn’t where you thought it was going to be, that can just be so disheartening, and almost embarrassing, you feel like you’re failing. And I don’t want teachers to feel like that. So I definitely want to support them in that area, and just show them this is just a way to help students get where they need to be, right. So it’s a way for us to reflect on what we’re doing in the classroom and our instruction and just help move them forward. So if we didn’t get it this week, let’s look at our instruction and see what we can do next. Right. Absolutely. Yeah,

Chrissy Beltran  09:09

yeah, I think you haven’t had that experience, it’s probably a really good experience for you having had as a coach, not that anybody wants that for anyone. But you knowing that that is the way it can be perceived and can be misused is going to help you frame this in a more positive way. And you’re right. The reason we take assessments, give assessments or reason we collect data is to help us figure out what’s next. I even told this to my daughter, you know, my five year old daughter, she had her little, you know, towards the end of year assessment that they give, and the teacher was giving me the results. And my daughter said the only thing that I didn’t know is I didn’t know the word for this specific picture. There was like a vocabulary thing. And so they were just showing them random pictures and she couldn’t show that couldn’t think of it in that moment. And I said that’s okay, because your teacher now is going to know what to do next. The data is going to show you Teach her what to do next. And when I was a teacher, it told me what to do next. And that’s what it’s for. They’re not taking its data to tell you if you’re doing great or not, they’re taking it to figure out what’s next. And so I think that coming at it with that, that reference point is a really good way to approach it with your teachers.

Stacy Amsden  10:15

Yeah, definitely it is. And we’re always collecting data as teachers, right. And even, like, in the moment, when we’re checking for understanding when we’re teaching, that’s something that we’re constantly doing throughout the lesson. So you’re actually collecting data all the time, and I don’t want it to, I don’t want them to feel like it’s something else that they have to do, right, I want to hopefully, help them get to the point where they see how beneficial it can be, and how your students can change and work towards improving their goal, right. But that, you know, we can get, we can get there. But I saw my students do that, as a teacher, I really saw them work harder and put more effort when they knew what their goal was. Right? So if they don’t know, then what are they working for? We got to give them something to work for.

Chrissy Beltran  11:16

So yeah, a lot of schools have used that a lot of schools have used it effectively with students are actually in charge of collecting certain information and setting goals, and then working towards those goals and kind of evaluating their progress towards those goals. So I think that’s a good thing, too. So what are some of the main challenges that you’ve tried to initiate this process with teacher that you’re having? So,

Stacy Amsden  11:36

um, when I started as a coach last year, teachers had told me, you know, during their PLCs, they didn’t feel really feel like they had a structure, right, which can be pretty common. So and they can kind of be all over the place, even though the district, you know, has it outlined for us. And that’s, you know, the outline, we’re supposed to follow it and so forth. But what I was getting from them as one, they didn’t really have a structure, and what were they supposed to be doing during that PLC? And the PLC is were k two and three, five. So there were too many grade levels meeting and they were not really able to get anything accomplished because that is k two. I mean, kindergarten is its whole world in itself. Right? And I that’s when grade I have never taught and being a coach, I have learned so much about kindergarten. But that’s a whole world in itself. And then. So anyway, one thing that I told my administrator at the time is, can we please make the PLCs just grade level, because they have to be able to review their own curriculum, you know, their standards, they can’t, there’s not time for them to be talking to first and second grade about what they’re doing maybe in other meetings, but not during PLC, they need to focus on their grade level content. So we did that. So we were able to change it to grade level we set you know, I did a survey and most of the teachers agreed they wanted to do that. And then after that, I introduced a data tracker that I helped create at my previous school when I was a teacher. So that has been a little bit of a challenge. Not all the teachers are on board with it, but most of them are. And it is something I feel like they think it might be something else that they have to do. Right, which I totally get it. I totally get it just coming from the classroom, I understand there’s a million things to do. So I think it’s just going to continue to take time, right to see the importance of how collecting data and focusing on where your kids are and where they need to be, can make such a huge difference in your classroom for your instruction. Right and your kids. So we’re just not there yet. We don’t, I don’t feel like that we see how useful it can be. So that’s where I’m struggling a little bit. It seems like each month, you know, as this year time has gone by teachers are more engaged and sharing it with me and I’m providing feedback. But I just wish we were talking about it more. We’re not really you know, I provide feedback on the computer. I bring up their data and I just like type type comments on it. But then there’s really no discussion And after that, so, yeah, what challenges are you having?

Chrissy Beltran  15:04

Um, so yeah, the things that you are seeing happen? Yeah, you’re right part of it is it takes time and coming back to it over and over again, change takes time and teachers to get used to a new process and, and a new way of doing things and having seen value and things that they didn’t before. It’s like, No, you almost have to like, do it badly for a year, and then the next year, it starts to click.

Stacy Amsden  15:29

All right, that’s, I have to say, I totally feel that way. I mean, you just, yes, I feel exact, that’s exactly what’s happening.

Chrissy Beltran  15:39

Yeah, like some people, you figure some things out, and you start to make certain things work. And then some people are like, I’m just gonna hold out, and maybe it’ll just go away. And then over time, you get more people on board. But of course, we do want to respond to their concerns and make sure they’re set up for success. And so that, that we have this ongoing betterment of the way that we do things. So I think, you know, revisiting the structures, like you mentioned, that teachers had felt like in the past, they didn’t really have a good structure. So it felt like a waste of time. splitting them up into grade levels, I think is really important, especially to start. And you’re right, there are other times whenever vertical teams are going to be important. But when they’re starting to look at their own data, it can be very overwhelming to be in a pack of, you know, 1520 teachers, and they’re all looking at something different, and it’s just like really stressful, then then you really can’t support each team very well. So they do need a facilitator. If this is something new, and they need a facilitator, that’s going to do some direct instruction on what they’re doing to really set up those structures. Because if they’ve never been asked to do it as a team, it’s hard for that to kind of organically happen. Mm hmm. What kind of structure do you have in place now? So as you’re working with teachers, and you are figuring out, like looking at their data, what are those meetings currently look like?

Stacy Amsden  16:51

So that that is been a little bit tricky this year, because we have I mentioned that to you. And that’s a whole other area. But we’ve had 11 different principles substitutes this year, we recently got one in January, that will be here till June. So that’s been a bit of a struggle, because I’ve had to step out a little bit of my coaching role, and it’s kind of turned into like an admin role for a little while. So it’s been kind, it’s been really hard for me to be, again, give that structure to the PLC, I still don’t think that we’re there yet. Because I’m not in every PLC with my prior administrator, we would break it up. But still, we didn’t have the data tracker at that time. That was last year. So I felt like there still wasn’t a structure. So I still I don’t feel like we’re there. Yes, we have the data tracker. And when I go to the PLCs for a few minutes, because I have to go to every one, right? So it’s really not benefiting them. Because I’m really not sitting there talking to them about their data at this point. I’m just kind of just going in saying hi, checking on them. And then I go to the next team. So and we have PLCs twice a month. So we have them every Wednesday on our late start date for an hour. So it’s only twice

Chrissy Beltran  18:21

a month. And so all happening at the same time. There’s no way to reorganize that. Yes. Because they’re happening during the late Yeah,

Stacy Amsden  18:28

they’re all happening at the same time. So I still don’t feel like I’m supporting them or benefited benefiting benefiting them in any way. Sorry. I’m nervous. I yeah, I still feel like we’re not there yet. Because I’m not going in and talking to them about the data that we’ve collected and reflecting on it and what our next moves are. And that’s like my dream. I want to be in there. And I want to be co teaching with them and supporting them in those areas. But I just don’t feel like we’ve made it yet. But they are using the tracker and they are discussing it as a team, but I’m not involved. Okay, if the team yet right. Yeah,

Chrissy Beltran  19:17

I can understand. So basically, you’re walking into a room going ooh, and then you get to be there for like five minutes. And then you walk into another

Stacy Amsden  19:23

room, you could have to leave much.

Chrissy Beltran  19:27

Is there a way like just as a survival mode to get this going to meet with like a lead teacher from each grade level and establish a protocol.

Stacy Amsden  19:37

That’s a good idea. I could definitely figure out a way to do that. I mean, even if they would be willing to do that, you know, on their prep or I mean whenever they’re available. That’s a great idea. Thank you. I will definitely look into that and see if I can do that. I talked to Another coach in our district because we have monthly coaching meetings, which is great. And she said the way she does it, since they’re all at the same time is she meets with, you know, just kindergarten on the first Wednesday of the second Wednesday, she meets with just first grade. So still with that structure, I’m like, well, then you’re not gonna see kindergarten for like four months. So I feel like, a long time. Yeah. So, but that was, that’s a great, that’s a great idea. I think that that would definitely be a possibility to meet, meet with a team lead and kind of just go over what they’re talking about and PLC. Yeah,

Chrissy Beltran  20:43

say, Okay, let’s, let’s establish a sequence of things you’re going to do when you look at your data. So in advance of Wednesday’s meeting, you meet with each individual person, you can even put them together on a team, and say, let’s talk about how we should look at data as a school, you could share with them some different possibilities, and what people do when they look at data to make it meaningful, and then get them to kind of create a structure, because that is the structure that as a team leaders, they’re going to leave that that session with their teachers, as like facilitator and say, Okay, this is what we talked about this, what we’re going to do to make this meaningful, to where it’s actually purposeful, what’s going to drive instruction, it’s going to impact our teaching when we go back to the classroom. So you definitely want to choose somebody who’s going to buy in to a data process, and believe that it is important and helpful and understands how to make it work for them. Yeah,

Stacy Amsden  21:33

definitely. Um, and I do have, there are questions on our data tracker for them, you know, to reflect on the data as they’re collecting it. And at the second PLC, they answer those questions together as a team. So you know, that’s where that collaboration piece comes in, just like what instructional strategies were used, or, you know, how are you going to change your instruction, just simple questions to help them reflect. And I wish that I was there during that piece, because I don’t see it until the end of the month when they give it to me. So okay, at that point, it’s like, as a coach, see, I need to figure all that out, I need to change that up. Because they might be done with that unit by time I see it or something, right? And then, and then it’s like, what can I do at that point? So I need to figure out how to make that better for them.

Chrissy Beltran  22:36

What if they got it to you, during that meeting, which even every two weeks is still kind of a long time. But like so the person who’s facilitating, like, if you think about PLC sessions in the way that we define roles, and different people have different roles in the session, what if you have a facilitator who’s walking you through a structure, and then maybe there’s like a Google form that mimics that structure that a note taker can use to fill in the notes and send them to you. And that way, at the end of the meeting, you have some of the things that they talked about, so you can go follow up with them and support them somehow, through PLC, through PD through you know, visits in the classroom, whatever it is that you need to do to meet those needs. Maybe one of the little boxes on that forum is how can Stacy support us? Oh,

Stacy Amsden  23:22

okay. I like that, I can definitely add that on there.

Chrissy Beltran  23:30

It is tricky to get a new procedure like this started, for sure, it’s even tricky when you’re present. But I think that providing some learning around it to your teachers could go a long way to so like definitely your meeting with like a lead teacher to establish them as a facilitator. But everybody’s going to kind of have to understand what the point of this is. So there’s a way to do like a little either whether you divided up by team or you do it whole group, some sort of session where you’re introducing people to why we look at data and how we’re going to use it. Well,

Stacy Amsden  23:59

I mean, yeah, we have, like I said, regarding like our late start is every Wednesday, so we have PD at the beginning of the month. So that’s pretty much where what, you know, I want to facilitate as far as PD, like, based on our building goals, or something that the district wants me to do. And then we also have like an individual teacher planning day. So it’s PD PLC, the individual teacher planning PLC, okay, so every Wednesday we have that hour that’s dedicated to, you know, the PLC or PD. So I that is definitely time that I can, you know, get in there and maybe work on that for sure.

Chrissy Beltran  24:46

Yeah, like if you plan, even if everybody’s in the same room. And so what they’re doing is they’re learning about, like, what is data? Why do we, you know, how do we take it what are different forms in formal assessment, like you mentioned earlier, you’re always taking data it does don’t have to be Apple summative thing, actually, summative data is like the least useful kind of data. Because by then it’s over. So yeah, if we talk about these little informal assessments of data, what kinds of things are collecting, and why that’s beneficial, and then how they can use it to plan future instruction. And even if you modeled, it might not be a bad thing to have you model the process of looking at data. And also model, this is what I collected on my tracker, this is what I’m thinking about it, this is how I’m going to plan a response. And it could be somebody’s actual data, which is always real meaningful. It could also be fake data that just kind of resembles a regular classroom that you wouldn’t you might have. But basically, you’re saying, Okay, this is what I see happening. So this is what I’m going to plan my whole group lesson I’m going to adjust in this way, I’m going to plan some small groups responding to this, and these are the kids that are going to go in there, and this is what I’m going to do. And then this is how I’m going to check to see if all that actually made a difference. Yeah, like my next assessment, this is the method I’m going to use to figure out is it working, that might be a helpful thing to do. You could also have, if you have a teacher who’s really good at it, you can have them model it, it’s always nice to get our teachers, leaders and have our other teachers learn from them. Because they are sometimes more likely to be like, ah, that’s, that’s a good idea. I like that to be the same thing. But they it just makes sense coming from a colleague, because they know it’s working in their classroom. Definitely

Stacy Amsden  26:25

I yeah, I love those ideas. And I’ve even considered that, you know, just doing a PDE of, you know, actually having the data tracker up there and having data on it and showing like, the process I would use, and I didn’t do it, I thought Wait, you know, teachers know how to collect data. And my best friend who I taught with at the school I came from, she’s like, Stacy, not a lot of teachers had to collect data, like we did for four years when we were, you know, in a school of reform, because that’s like a huge thing with the weekly data meetings weekly PLCs collecting and turning data and weakly. And she just reminded me that, you know, there’s a lot of schools do it differently. And I wish I would have did that I wish I would have introduced the data tracker that way, and some sort of like professional development, how to actually go about using it. And I think that would have helped with the value of it as well, too. Yeah,

Chrissy Beltran  27:31

I think they’ll get more meaning out of it. And it’ll feel it’s not just some random handout that they got that now they have to fill it out. And they don’t know why or what they’re supposed to do with it. Yeah,

Stacy Amsden  27:41

and I don’t want it to, like I said, I don’t want it to just be something else, like all added to their plate that they have to do, right. I just I hope that eventually and I really feel like we are going to get there, eventually they will see the value in it and why it’s used. And like I said, I really just want to be in those PLCs more throughout, you know, the month not just reviewing the data at the end of the month. And that’s my fault, because I just, I really couldn’t figure out our tip, I didn’t take the time this year to really figure out how to change that process. So that’s something I really want to work on for next year.

Chrissy Beltran  28:25

I know the logistics have been rough, and that has made it really hard. And then you’re working within a system that has been changed and not like positive change, just like random change, right? So like one person comes in, maybe they ask people to do stuff, maybe they don’t somebody else comes in, they ask them to do completely different things somebody else comes in says why are you doing that? And that’s tough with with changing leadership. That really is?

Stacy Amsden  28:48

It is yeah, and they they and each administrator has a different mindset for a coach, right and what a coach does, so it’s yeah, it’s changed quite often, but late. Most recently, it’s been consistent. So it’s been nice having the same person here every day, and it’s great for our students and our staff. So and you when you have mentioned summative assessments that really got me thinking about because when I first introduced the data tracker, some teachers were like, well, Stacy, we already have, you know, our gradebook. We’re collecting grades and but that I wanted, I really did my best to explain the difference between the two, because collecting you know, planning a CFA and doing the formative assessments. And looking at that data along the way, right is very different from just putting summative grades into a gradebook. So I want to make sure that that message is clear between the two. Yeah, right because They’re like, Well, why am I keeping this? If I can just put this into the gradebook? So I, that was a challenge. That was a little bit of a challenge, too. Yeah,

Chrissy Beltran  30:10

because a grade is going like let’s say they do one assignment, it covers five different things, which sometimes assignments do. That doesn’t mean that and also some things are done in a different way. It just grades are not assessment in my Yeah. And summative is probably the best way to look at it. And even then I don’t know that it’s grades mean a lot of different things. And we all grade differently. And even if we tried to align that process, and so yeah, if we’re looking at a common assessment or like a, you know, a formative assessment that we have decided, okay, we’re looking at character analysis this week. And we’re going to see, can kids do these three things. And we’re going to give Well, this is how we’re going to administer this assessment. That was a huge conversation, I had to have many, many times over the first few years and working with teachers as the way that we administer these assessments looks different. And it’s impacting our results. So you read the text to them, you did not, you did it on a shared reading text, you gave them these questions, and they wrote a response, you modeled a structure for writing a response, this person did not, we were all over the place, and getting some alignment in the way that it was administered. That was a conversation we had over time when people started looking at their data going, how did you do that? How did so many of your kids do? Well, sometimes it was authentic. Sometimes it was like, Well, we, you know, we practiced it in different texts right before and then we probably then they did it on a different one, you know, which not that that’s a bad thing. It’s we have to come to an agreement about those kinds of processes, if we’re going to use them as common assessments that we’re, we’re looking across a grade level, because if not, we’re looking at them at different things. And so those we really want them targeted on something, and we want to break down the data. Usually, I’m guessing your data trackers broken down somehow by standard or skill or something like that? Yeah,

Stacy Amsden  31:55

yeah, definitely. Yeah, they list the standard on there. And that, you know, depending on how long the unit the unit is, or whatever, and they just list the CFA is on there. And it could be, you know, up to six weeks, they’re just collecting data. And then when they start a new standard, they just moved to a new tracker. So um, but again, it’s just me not really seeing it until the end of the month. So that’s something you know, again, that I need to change, and you got me thinking about something else. And now I just lost it. Darn it. But the Yeah, the summative and the just the CFAES and planning the CFAES together, that’s something that I’ve helped talk about, uh, you know, I’ve encouraged them and just getting, you know, moving away from the just teaching, teaching, teaching, giving a test, yes. Teaching to you know, we got to move into like that data analysis form of teaching, right and cycle. But yeah, checking to see if it see if, you know, giving the CFAES checking for understanding. That’s just really important. Oh, I got it now. Just the, the instruction piece, right, I feel like it’s hard for. And it was hard for me to be like, Okay, I have my data in front front of me, I see that my kids didn’t make the progress that I wanted them to make. And for me to sit there and then look at my team and say, Okay, what are you doing in your classroom? Or will you come in and teach this for me? Right, it took me a while to get there. But now it’s easy for me because I want to do what’s best for my students. So I just want them to be okay with looking at their team partner and saying, Hey, why don’t you come in and teach my kids, you know, this standard or this skill or strategy, and I can observe you, I would love for us to get to that point. Because in the moment, when we’re looking at that data and reflecting on it, that’s the whole point, right? To help our students, keep it student centered, and change what we’re doing, because we’re not good at everything. Teachers aren’t good at everything. You know, we there were certain teachers, I would go to that I knew that were really good at tech and ask them for help, right? Because, and some teachers would come to me and ask me for like classroom management support or whatever, but I feel like it’s just so hard for teachers to get to that point. Like, okay, don’t it’s not because we talk a lot about the kids. But we’re not talking about what we’re we’re doing, and I want us to get to that point. Yeah.

Chrissy Beltran  34:57

So that’s really good. You Yeah, it does. Because it can be easy for teachers to say, well, the kids do this, and the kids do that, or they, you know, they’re good at this, or they’re bad at that, or they always struggle with this. But what are we doing to set them up to be able to do this better? How can we respond? Maybe somebody else did set them up to do it really well, what does that look like? And it takes trust, which takes time, if your teams have not worked together a lot, it takes a lot of time to grow that. And one way that we can model that is by being vulnerable ourselves. And in that moment, you know, I know you can’t be in all the meetings all the time, but you can set up a modeling session during PD, or you can, you can still rotate, I still think it might be valuable, once you have your team leaders to maybe spend 30 minutes on one grade and 30 minutes and another so at least you can get through them in like, you know, three or four weeks, which I know it’s well know of three or four rotations, which I guess would be like two months. But still, it’s it’s not enough, but at least you can be present and you can be vulnerable and say, Okay, how did you do that? If somebody did really well, in that moment, you can say, How did how did you get your kids to do that? What does that look like? And one of the things that I used to do, it was, first of all, as part of our data protocol, people were going to share, like we set up norms, and one of the norms was you’re gonna share, like, if you did something great, we’re gonna hear from you. We want to know how you did it. Because some people do some gatekeeping around certain things, not a lot. But certain people, for some reason are not going to put it out there. And we want to make it clear that this is a community of learners, and we’re going to learn from each other. That’s the best place to start. And then we’d say, How did you do that? Can you model that for me? And I literally would have like my document camera setup. And they would go up and like, show us how they did things? Wow. Yeah. And that, again, that took some time. But I wanted sometimes in advance of the meeting, I would talk to somebody and say, Hey, would you feel comfortable? I see that what you’re doing here is really cool strategy. And I haven’t seen in a lot of other rooms. Would you mind sharing that with us during PLC next week? And most of the time, they’re like, okay, because we want to set up our teachers as leaders. Yeah. And we want to also show that we can ask what I’m learning here from somebody else, and you color doesn’t matter that you taught fourth grade for 20 years, you never you didn’t have these kids for 20 years, and maybe this group of kids needs something different. And that’s fine. It’s not about the teacher, like you said, it’s about the kids, but how do we respond to what the kids are doing? And how can we be proactive with what the kids are doing? So how can we set them up for success based on their needs? So those that that information we’re getting from the kids, it’s showing us their needs, and saying, Hey, this is what I’m not really that good at? I need some help. And then we look at people and go, Okay, well, how do we help them? Let’s figure it out? How can we help these kids in a way that’s going to be supportive of them? Well, you have a group of kids that worked really well, this worked something you did work really well for them, can you show us how you did it? And start out by like setting the stage for them to be successful by letting them know in advance because some people were like, okay, but they’re like, a little nervous. And that’s fine. And then some people are like, sure, yeah, no problem. Nobody’s ever asked me to, I would love to do that, you know? Yeah. So set them up for success by giving them advance notice at first, but then over time, make that part of the protocol where somebody can show something that worked for them. Like everybody looked at your data, who did something that worked for them for their kids who, what kids did really well, what did you do with them that helped them do really well? And there are some teachers look at their data and go, Well, I guess I didn’t do anything that helped anybody, you know. Okay. Thank you for sharing. And obviously, you wouldn’t say that, but you know, the idea is okay, yeah, I can understand how you’re feeling. It’s really frustrating when we look at our data. And we don’t feel like our kids did what we thought they could do, right? So let’s figure it out. What can we do to be supportive of kids? And you know, who has tried something that that maybe it’s new, and you never did it before, but it worked for you this time? We would love to hear you share about that. And then it takes time. And dynamics are sometimes tough in certain grade levels. But, but it can happen over time. And like I said before, what is there’s a little jingle that people are being that are using on like Instagram reels and on. I mean, it’s an older one, but they it’s a little song and they say, Bing can think of being terrible at something is the first step to being really good at something. Oh, I like that. It’s really cute. I can’t think of the exact language. I know the last part has been really good. I haven’t heard it yet. I’ll have to go. I think I think it’s sucking at something is the first I don’t know how appropriate that is for PLC. But that’s the general idea. Yeah, start out. That’s okay, that we’re not having don’t have all this stuff figured out. But we have to keep trying different things until we find a process that works for us. So setting up a protocol, having a part of those components be that we established norms that we’re going to share, we’re going to talk we’re going to communicate, we’re going to ask questions of each other because we are our own best resources. We are setting them up for communication hopefully even on Those teams that may struggle with that. And then, you know, giving them an opportunity to share this worked.

Stacy Amsden  40:06

Yeah, I would love. That sounds beautiful, you know, I would I hope to get there someday with them. I mean, and just having the protocol and having the structure and then knowing what to expect when they get into that PLC and it just being so beneficial and just useful, right to their time and to their students. Because time is such a huge thing with us teachers, right, if it’s not going to be beneficial. It’s just wasting our time. And but yeah, I hope to I hope to definitely get there. So that’s going to be a big goal of mine, for this upcoming school year. So yeah, I really appreciate that. Thank you. Yeah,

Chrissy Beltran  40:53

you’re welcome. I love it. I think that you, you talked about some things that that you can really implement, and over time that you can see some change, and I hope it works for you.

Stacy Amsden  41:03

Yeah, I hope so too. I mean, I’m just, I’m just all about supporting them, and helping them really see the value in the data and just providing that feedback to their kids right in the moment. And I found that so useful. When I was in the classroom, I mean, it just changed my complete way of teaching, because my kids just knew their expectations and knew where they needed to go. And it was beautiful, you know, using data that way. It’s just it makes a world of difference. So it really does. Yeah, really does. Yeah,

Chrissy Beltran  41:44

I think that establishing that team of kind of like Team leave, in terms of looking at data and assessment, you can use it for a lot of things you can talk about, well, what do we want to do with data? How do we want to use this, like you can have conversations with that team and make decisions about how things are going to be established, and how you’re going to move in those that direction. So that that way that it’s meaningful to the teachers themselves. And so you get real input on what data is going to look like at your school. Mm hmm, you might get a lot of mileage out of that group of people.

Stacy Amsden  42:17

Yeah, and I went to one of our goals we talked about already for next year is providing student feedback, that’s something that they as a whole, like every grade level wants to work on. So I’m hoping, you know, to combine that with the data, and just showing them how, even if they display it, I mean, I was required to display my data. But then after doing that, and the students goals were displayed, and they just put more effort into their work, because they wanted to reach that goal, right again, because they knew where they needed to be. And it was, it was just awesome. I mean, it was just, and I knew exactly what I needed to do the next day after reflecting on my data, either in that moment, or at the end of the day, how I was going to start my left lesson the next day. So it was just so beneficial. There’s so much value in having that data, right there. So and it gets to a point where, you know, you’re not going to feel like it’s something else to do, because your students are benefiting from it so much. Right? And

Chrissy Beltran  43:40

tells you what to do next. Yeah. You’re not just planning for random stuff. Yeah, your own kid.

Stacy Amsden  43:46

Yeah, you’re just not following the pacing guide, because you’re supposed to, right, you’re starting your lesson the next day in that unit based on what your exit tickets look like the day before, right? So I got to the point where I was constantly doing that. And it just changed the way I talk completely because I saw again, I saw the value in it. But I also had an administrator that helped me see that value, because she was very, very data driven. So um, but yeah, I hope to get there someday.

Chrissy Beltran  44:21

Time, keep coming back to it, keep you know, having those conversations and supporting teachers. And over time, a lot of people will see the benefit of it. I would never say everybody, but a lot of people. You’ll definitely have some change. I’m sure you will.

Stacy Amsden  44:35

Yeah. Well, yeah, this has been so great. Thank you so much for just giving me this opportunity because I started listening to you last year when I became a coach and this is just like such an honor to be sitting here talking to you. I’m just like, I’ve told my coach and she’s and I actually told her about you so she’s been listening to you all the time. And she’s like, Gosh, I wish I had her as a mentor when I did. So, now she’s listening to your podcast in. But yeah, I just I’m on your website all the time. I’m buying your resources all the time. So I it’s just, man, you are just so awesome. And you do so much for the coaching community. So this is an absolute blessing for me. So thank you so much. I listened to you on the way to work on the way home. You’re right there on my Spotify. So I’ve learned so much for you. So thank you so much. Well, last thing to me.

Chrissy Beltran  45:39

Oh, I really appreciate that. Yeah. Oh, all right. Well, I hope this all works out. And you’ll have to let me know when you retry something. I

Stacy Amsden  45:47

know, I’ll definitely follow up with you for sure.

Chrissy Beltran  45:52

Hey, Coach, that was such an interesting conversation to me getting data and PLCs started, you know, working with your teams in these areas can be kind of hairy. So I’m so glad that Stacy wrote this question to me and that we could share it with you. Next week is the last episode of the season of season four which is wild. Join me for episode 173 Where I’m going to share my experience with common assessments, how to make them and what to do with them once you’ve got them. Until then happy coaching!

Chrissy Beltran  46:27

Thank you for listening to buzzing with Miss B the coaching podcast. Want more coaching ideas? Check me out at buzzing with Ms. b.com. and on Instagram at buzzing with Miss B. If you love the show, share it with a coach who would love it too. Or leave me a review on iTunes. It’s free and it helps others find this show. Happy coaching!