The Three Processes that Support Student Learning with Eva Mireles, ep. 251

The Three Processes that Support Student Learning with Eva Mireles, ep. 251, Instructional Coaching with Ms. B Podcast

Chrissy Beltran  00:01

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Chrissy Beltran  00:37

Welcome to instructional coaching with Misty where we believe that every teacher deserves a coach, and every coach does too. I’m Chrissie Beltran, an elementary teacher who became a coach, and I had to create my own coaching program that worked. Now I teach coaches how to design their coaching programs, build a school wide action plan and use differentiated strategies to support teachers. Plus, I’ve got a special spot in my heart for literacy coaches. Now let’s dig into the episode.

Chrissy Beltran  01:01

Hey coach and welcome to episode 251 the three processes that support student learning with my guest Eva Mireles. I am excited about this topic because I think this is a really important underlying issue that we don’t often address in school settings. And these three processes are things that all kids need to be successful, regardless of their age. So if we have learning issues, they could be pointing back to something that’s missing in what we’re going to talk about today. Before we get started, I want to remind you that I have my confident literacy coach course open right now. You can grab it at confident literacy coach.com. It is a one stop shop for all literacy coaching needs. It teaches you how to coach and what to coach. So check that out at confident literacy coach.com, the cart is closing soon, and you can also grab my free five priorities mini course at buzzing with Miss b.com/literacy coach. So without further ado, I would love to welcome my guest, Eva milleres. She has been really prolific on Instagram. Maybe you follow her account and you’ve seen some of her posts about this topic. I can’t wait to talk with her about these three processes. So let’s welcome Eva to the podcast. Welcome and thank you for being

Eva Mireles  02:12

here. Thank you so much for having me. So as a quick way to

Chrissy Beltran  02:15

introduce yourself, I would love to hear about a few things from you. Who do you help and how do you spend most of your time and energy at work?

Eva Mireles  02:23

So as a k5 reading specialist, I have the opportunity to work with both students and helping them close their literacy gaps and teachers in helping them with instruction, supporting them with the PLC PLCs, looking at their data. And so how I spend my day really depends on the day.

Chrissy Beltran  02:44

Yes. And then the other question that I have to get you to know you a little bit better. It’s also part of my mission to share hobbies with instructional coaches. This year, I feel like so many times, we dedicate so much of ourselves to school, we don’t spare a lot of leftover of ourselves to do things that we enjoy. So what is the hobby that you love to do?

Eva Mireles  03:04

Um, so I like a few things. I like hiking, I like reading. And as you were asking the question, I was like, you know, I spawn a lot of time in my garage gym, and if I don’t spend time in there, it’s not good for anybody. And so I’m going to call that a hobby, even though I don’t think I would have called it a hobby before,

Chrissy Beltran  03:22

interesting. Yeah, I think your posts of your rowing, you do like a rowing machine, right?

Eva Mireles  03:27

Yes, I have a rower. I have weights, little different things invested in, so I spend a lot of time in there. So I’m gonna call that a hobby. Okay, good for you.

Chrissy Beltran  03:37

I like it, yes, and I love the hiking as well. So great. So Okay, so today we’re going to talk about these three processes that support student learning. And you were sharing about these on Instagram, and so I was interested in speaking to you about a little bit more, because I would love to get kind of just, I don’t know, a little bit more information. I think this could be a missing piece in a lot of the work that we’re doing at schools. We focus on academics, but maybe not the things that support those academics and the kids ability to gain those you know actually learn things you know. So can you introduce us in general, to these three processes that actually

Eva Mireles  04:10

support student learning? Yes, so it’s metacognition, executive function and self regulation. So metacognition is students thinking about their thinking. We’ve heard that a lot in reading instruction, and it’s also about being able to direct their thinking. Executive function has to do with their student’s ability to plan, sequence, initiate and sustain behaviors toward a goal, and it also includes making adjustments in response to feedback. And then you have self regulation, which is a student’s capacity to understand and direct one’s own learning. And it also, like it has, I didn’t know this, but it has, you go through four processes when it comes to self regulation and learning, because a lot of times we think about self regulation as it goes with emotions, right? Their students ability to regulate their emotions, to keep the. Self calm, but it also has to do with their learning. And so, like students, have to be able to observe what somebody’s teaching them, they have to be able to emulate it. Then they have to be able to execute it on their own, which is the self controlled level. And then, then when they’re self regulated, when they can apply what you’ve taught them through in different scenarios or situations without your prompting. How interesting.

Chrissy Beltran  05:22

It reminds me of, there’s a lot of those little videos going around where they’re like, this is, this is the the teacher model, and it’s like, somebody executing something perfectly, and then the the student, student attempt with guidance. And then it’s like, pretty good. And then it’s like, independent practice, and it’s just chaos, like, like, completely nuts. And so that could be considered like a self regulation issue as well, not always just like an actual understanding of what is being taught, but an ability to execute it

Eva Mireles  05:50

right. It’s what happens a lot of times when teachers say, hey, when I’m doing it with them, and when I’m doing the guided like they can do it, but then when I release them, oh my gosh, I don’t. They don’t know what they’re doing, and so that’s part of those processes. And I think if we’re aware of those, that is, we always know that learning is a process. Well, we think that it’s a process in the back of our minds, but then we get frustrated when the process doesn’t move as quickly as we would like it to. But if we were aware of those processes and how we can help kids move through them, I think it would help us as teachers as well, because, I think especially post covid And in the midst of a lot of tech, there’s a lot of frustration from teachers that kids just aren’t retaining things the way that we would like them to you

Chrissy Beltran  06:31

know, I’m kind of glad that you mentioned that too, because I truly believe that a part of it is our reliance on technology, and not just the idea that we don’t use as much of our Brains because we’re remembering things through our technology instead, but the fact that we learn less when we read it on a screen than whenever we read it on paper, I think that plays a big role in what we’re seeing right

Eva Mireles  06:50

now. Yes, and then a lot of times in school. Although I love technology, I think it can be a useful tool. We have to remember that at home, kids aren’t always using it to learn, or at least they’re not aware that they’re using it to learn, right? Because even when they’re playing their video games, they are learning right, like they’re learning the path to go to get the thing that they want, right. But if you’re not bringing their attention to that, they’re just thinking they’re having fun, right? And so when you get to school and you want me to do what on this thing? And yes, it’s gamified. Yes, this intervention is gamified, but I still have to work at it that I’m not going to be really trying to learn from it.

Chrissy Beltran  07:29

Yeah, that’s a good point, too. I yeah, I think we have, there’s just been this boom around it, and we’ve kind of jumped into it thinking, Oh, this is what kids need, and this is how we’re going to prepare them, you know, for their adult lives. And I’m like, I don’t, I don’t, I don’t think this is working. I feel like we are kind of working against ourselves a lot, and I get the districts invested in it, like you said, they’re great tools for certain purposes, but whenever that’s our go to for everything. You know, my friend was saying, you know, I modeled a lesson in a classroom the other day, and the teacher has been saying but she’s had such a hard time getting her kids engaged. And she goes, Okay, well, I’m going to pull out the The coach said, I’m going to use dry erase boards. And she was like, Oh, well, they have their, you know, their, whatever. I don’t know what tool, what, what specific tool that school had that, you know, that they use, that kids can submit their responses on. So she know, I’m going to give them a dry erase marker, and I’m going to give them a dry erase board. And she did, and the engagement was just fine, you know? And it’s just like, sometimes we make things more complicated, yes, and kids, can, you know, they can write on stuff and it would be okay, yes. So that was a sidebar, but I think it’s, I think it’s kind of relevant.

Eva Mireles  08:38

It is. It allows us to see what they’re learning too, in real time, like the good old fashioned dry erase board lets us to that’s a great formative assessment to kind of see if they’re getting it or not.

Chrissy Beltran  08:48

Yeah, it’s one of my favorites. Everybody, just hold up your boards and I can just scan the room and be like, All right, happy you have no idea what’s happening. I have to go into an app and, like, check all this stuff. And, you know, let me

Eva Mireles  09:00

just, let’s be real. Are we going to go into the app? Probably not. That’s right. It’s going

Chrissy Beltran  09:05

to be like, oh, when they go to PE I’m going to do this. What is it? What was the what was that little thing? Whatever, they would freeze the frame, and it’d be like, No, they did not actually do that thing.

Eva Mireles  09:17

Yeah. It’s like, the papers that go home that you never actually grade, yes,

Chrissy Beltran  09:20

that make their way into the filing cabinet. That is the trash can. That’s just the reality. So we have to be honest with ourselves, and in the moment, feedback is going to be so much more valuable than if we you know, wait to look at it someday. So one of the things that you shared on your posts were about how social, emotional learning is supportive of these processes. So if you’re doing SEL, if that’s like, a priority in your school, you may already be addressing these things. So can you kind of like expound on that a little bit, and talk a little bit about how social, emotional learning supports these processes? Yes.

Eva Mireles  09:52

So basically, it’s saying that if you are teaching students right, we’re teaching students these breathing exercise. So they can calm their emotions, and we’re thinking about their emotions as it relates to interacting with their peers, and their peers kind of being a trigger. But I think sometimes we forget as adults that our kids are carrying around a lot of anxiety around learning right, whether it’s math or reading, right? And so teaching them how to be metacognitive, right about that, and then employing that tool that you’ve taught them to do that. And one thing that an art teacher on our campus does is she has all every time she comes, has the kids come in, she has to stand behind their chairs and do a breathing exercise, and she participates as well. And when I asked her about it, because, of course, I was learning about this myself, and I wanted to know, how is that working for you? And she said that it helps her students kind of embody themselves, right, and be in the present moment. Because sometimes they’re coming in from recess and they’re just right, and she’s like, they’re, when we do the breathing exercises, they’re they’re more present, like, it doesn’t solve all the world’s problems, right? But she’s employing that not just like they’re seeing that being used not just in their SEL it’s not something that they toss or that they just used before or they get while they’re getting upset. You’re using it during an instructional time, right? And then also, what research says is that as you’re doing these exercises, you’re actually rewiring your brain so that you can then maybe have a different reaction, right? So it’s twofold. You’re teaching them how to use it when they’re triggered, or they’re getting upset, or before they’re getting upset, right? But then you’re also then rewiring their brain to help them that have that same reaction every time to that thing that is the trigger.

Chrissy Beltran  11:38

Yeah, I love that, that, you know, I think sometimes we forget about academically strong students, or kids who tend to have a history of being strong in academics, that they can struggle in these areas too, just as much as a student who struggled every day. You just might not see it as often, because they’re not hitting those hurdles that they’re not able to leap over as easily as often. But then we’re building we’re not building the resiliency in them, because things are not as hard, you know, so they don’t have as many opportunities to practice. Well, what do I do if something’s hard? Yeah. And so we sometimes forget about those kids and those skills. But then whenever things do get hard, at some point later in their schooling, for whatever reason, that’s when they hit a wall and they don’t have those that skill set.

Eva Mireles  12:20

Yes. Yes. And also, like, you know, we, especially as a literacy coach, right? You have teachers that complain about students that have that task avoidance. I don’t have to go to the bathroom. It’s independent reading time, and everybody has to go the bathroom, right? So that would be a great time to, like, have the student check in with themselves, do a body scan. Do I really go to the bathroom, or do I just not want to read, right? Like, can you do that every single time with a kid? No, can you play that Russian roulette with them every time? No, sometimes you have to shut them go to the bathroom. If you see a student that’s that’s doing that frequently, that’s a com opportunity for conversation, right? Like, hey, next time, why not employ this breathing exercise or whatever that we’ve learned before, you ask to go to the Russian and see if that’s really what it is, so that you can, you know, because maybe because maybe they’re having some anxiety around that, right? And then sometimes, too, we’ve heard this before, that neurons that fire together, wire together, right? It’s a habit loop that they have now, right? If they have this habit of, it’s reading time, it’s time to go the bathroom, they may not even be aware of that, that’s what’s happening, that they’re having like we’re being judgy of them, and saying, Oh, there they go again. But there may not be a way that that’s what they’re doing. We think they know. We always assume that kids know exactly why they’re doing something, but they often don’t right, and so if we recognize it, pointing it out to them, giving them a tool to use, right? And I think now they have those little things that you can put little stickers, that you can they can put their little finger on, right to, like, fidget with, or just giving them a tool to use, so employing them, employing the social emotional skills and tools, not just during their morning meeting and then not just when they’re upset at a friend, right, but then throughout the day, trying to help them recognize when that’s happening, and that’s where that metacognition comes in, because as a teacher, you don’t have time to like scan everybody all the time. You are doing it right, but you don’t have time to have those deep conversations all the time. So it’s a balance between teaching them how to do it so they can employ those tools themselves, because that’s when you’re really empowering them to take charge of their own learning is when you can employ them to use those tools on their own, to to calm themselves, to use their executive phone, because then they’re able to pay attention. Once you’ve got, once they’ve calm, whatever it is they’re unease when it comes to the content area, then they can actually pay attention to the lesson. Yeah, that

Chrissy Beltran  14:36

was a really good example. We’ve all seen it. So about metacognition? You mentioned metacognition and how this is something we talk about in reading, and have been for years. And it’s true. We see that all the time in reading, you think about your thinking, you know, what are you noticing? Are you Are you understanding? Where are you getting stuck? So what does that look like whenever we’re talking about just learning in general? What does it look like when kids are metacognitive, and how can we support them in becoming more metacognitive?

Eva Mireles  15:04

I think one of the ways that we can do that is just kind of letting students know, and this is something I would say to kids, like, I can’t pour the learning. I can’t pour the knowledge, right? There’s a part that you play. And although we know that intuitively, I don’t know that we’re always communicating that to kids, that they have a role, and I think that’s an important thing to tell them, because then it lets them know that I have some power here, right? It’s not my learning isn’t just rest on my teacher, and whether or not however they’re doing it, I have a role that I play, and I think that that’s important also for the teacher, because a lot of times, everyone else, admin, parents, even the students, are putting all the weight of student learning just on the teacher, and the students play a role. So I think naming it like, what is metacognition? What does it mean when you’re being metacognitive? What does that look like? And one thing that I tried when I was in my classroom with math actually was using the four levels of understanding, right? And so like number one is, I’m trying to get it, but I still need more practice. Two was, Can I can do this with help? Three, I get it, and I can show that I understand it without help. And then four, I can do this and teach it. And so one way that you can do this is, again, the good old fashioned dry erase boards right as you’re doing your formative assessment, having kids right on the on like a corner the number, and it’s private between you and them. It can be as small as they want to make it, because ideally you’re circulating, right? And so you can see, and it was really good opportunity to have conversations with students and say, Hey, you put a four. Now look at the answer on the board, yeah, because they are not quite sure, right? They don’t know what this means either, right? So this is a process that you’re going through, but there was a point where I got to where I could, we could do our little mini lesson on a car fix. I would teach math in small group, and I would be like, Okay, if you’re a one or two, come back with me. We’re gonna do another mini reteach. And if you’re a three out of four, here’s the answer key over here, right? Highlight your answers. Check your work. Check in with me. And it did. It did work. And sometimes the ones that were at a one or two, when they I would pull them back again, they weren’t. They were they might. Somebody had a three. They didn’t have the confidence. They didn’t feel like they were at a one or two. So it’s like introducing these, because I’ve seen a lot of things in teacher classrooms really, pretty, really laminated and dusty, right? Because it’s not actually being used and it’s it’s not new, right? But it’s implementing it and seeing how it’s going to work for your kids, and then applying it through the day. So like I coached a teacher to try to implement it during her mini lesson, right? Having the kids put it in, you know, write down where they’re at with during their guided piece that we do, and then the IB, where are you at? Are you at a 123, or four? So that they can also be metacognitive. So using taking a tool, using it consistently, so that it becomes part of the language. Is one way that we can teach kids how to be metacognitive.

Chrissy Beltran  18:06

I like that because I like the way that you’re actually because I’ve seen it used in classrooms and and like you mentioned, kids are like, I got it. I’m a four. I’m good. And it’s nowhere near like, dude, if there was a zero on this chart, we would have answered this is so I don’t know what you’re doing, but they don’t have that ability yet, because they’re little, you know? Or they’re just so far off the mark, they don’t realize that they’re so far off the mark, like they you don’t know what you don’t know, right? Right? So they have no frame of reference for it. But if we, I’ve seen teachers use it and completely trust the child’s input, but the way you’re talking about using it is as a tool to teach them to be aware, right? That is like a process. It’s not like, Oh, this is going to determine what groupings I do completely. I’m not just going to use this information on its own. You’re going to help kids be thoughtful about okay, if I’m getting them right, then I’m probably getting in the right, you know, moving the right direction. If I can explain it to a partner, you know, if I can write a sentence about it and explain what I did, I’m probably moving the right direction. If I can’t do any of these things, maybe I need some support, but that’s going to take time for them to get good at

Eva Mireles  19:16

bats, right? And it’s a rollout process, right? And so a lot of how I approach things in the classroom is always from that let’s play with it, right? It’s, it’s, it’s fun for me to see how it’s gonna work. And when I approach it from that perspective, then it takes a little bit of the pressure off myself about going perfectly, and then it also takes the pressure off the students from them performing perfectly, right? If they didn’t completely understand the four levels. That’s okay. I’m just going to reteach it. If they mis numbered themselves a four, that’s okay. That’s an opportunity to explain to them, Hey, these are the things we’re looking for when we’re putting a four right. Even for the kids that put a one or a two and it turned out they were actually a three, it’s like, hey, it’s trusting yourself too, right? It’s building that self. Confidence that, that self efficacy, that you do know what you’re doing in this situation, and then also some and realizing that they’re all gonna, you mentioned zero, we’re all gonna start off at zero, and we’re learning something new. That’s right? And so that, so it’s reset. It’s it may be, I might be at a four for this concept, but maybe for this concept, I’m at a one, right? Because a lot of times, I think we also have a bad habit of labeling kids, and even I hear it in conversation sometimes, when we’re talking about students and where they’re at with their data. Oh, so, so so smart. Okay, but you know, there’s the whole point for them to learn. So you can be smart and still need to grow in an area and still need to learn something.

Chrissy Beltran  20:41

Yes, and whenever we constantly, that’s that whole growth mindset thing, whenever we tell kids how smart they are. You know, my daughter, my seven year old, is very academically able in English, but she is in a dual language program, and so she spends every other day, one day is in English, one day is in Spanish, like the whole day. And yeah, and we’re blessed to live in a city that has this available as just part of the normal like, this is how it is here. You know, we have over I want to say over 80% of people in the city are bilingual. Let’s just, you know, how awesome. So, yeah, we’re so fortunate that our public school can offer this. She was not super excited about it. She was, she doesn’t realize that other classes this was an option like that, I chose it, yes, not elaborated on that, but she’s in first grade. She’s been in it for three years, and her teacher was like, you know, on on days whenever we’re doing English, everything is great, because I don’t even have to have conversations with you about that, but the days that we’re working in Spanish, she’s like, you know, turned off. She was not excited to try things, so we had to do a lot of problem solving around that. And now we’re good, like, we figured it out. She’s motivated and excited. We started doing Duolingo, and for some reason, that was a magic bullet. And now she can’t wait to go to someone, talk to her little friends, speak to them in Spanish about whatever language she has acquired over the last few years. But, you know, if we had just written it off as well, she’s smart, I don’t know what the problem is. Mm, like she what she should be able to do this. Why can’t? Why is she having you know, we, if we develop that kind of fixed mindset that because you’re good at lots of things, everything should be easy, right arm, kids, yes. And then you feel like you can’t ask for help because I’m supposed to be smart, I’m supposed to be good at this. How am I going to ask for help? If I know I’m I’m totally bombing this, and I should be writing a one, but I’m smart, that’s embarrassing. I’m not going to write a one on here. Yeah, three, and just hope nobody notices, right? No, so.

Eva Mireles  22:36

And that’s why that was one mechanism that I created, was in on the dry erase board, writing it’s small, like, this is not for you to broadcast it. That’s right, it’s small. And then I can see it if you want to cover it with your thumb. It’s fine, like, whatever you need to do. But it’s, it’s for you and me. It’s not for everyone,

Chrissy Beltran  22:56

like, showing to everybody else. Look, I figured this out, you know, right? Or like, whenever they would hold up their little dry race boards, they’d hold them way out to try to, like, yes, excited. And I say, you know, you hold it right here against your chest, because this is just, you know, I just need to see it. Everybody else isn’t going to see what you wrote, you know. So I agree with that totally. I think that we have to be we just have to get to know our kids and normal people have strengths in some areas and not, not in all areas, and we have to give them the grace to not know things, yes,

Eva Mireles  23:27

embrace that we want, right? Because when we get new kids, just because we’ve been teaching for however many years, a new student is a new student might be the same grade, but we have to learn that child and how to help them learn and make those connections. And so we want that grace too.

Chrissy Beltran  23:46

I totally agree. So okay, one of the things that you mentioned was executive functioning. So that is something that we hear a lot about that seems to be lacking in a lot of kids, even adults have many adults have issues with executive functioning. And so can you share a little bit about what that includes, and then what we do when we see that those skills are lacking.

Eva Mireles  24:09

So executive functioning is defined as being able to hold information in your mind right, inhibit or restrain incorrect or premature responses, and then sustain or switch attention to meet a goal. So think about all those things

Chrissy Beltran  24:25

that’s a lot. Maybe I need some help on that, right?

Eva Mireles  24:32

Because a lot of times, and I think it’s important to eliminate that for teachers, because a lot of times we think that if a student’s sitting there quietly and just looking and tracking us there. Yeah, that’s engagement, yeah. And so one thing I’ve been guilty of saying to kids sometimes is recently, is like, this isn’t Netflix and show like,

Chrissy Beltran  24:58

we’re not turning the brain. Off and drooling, guys, you gotta, you gotta be

Eva Mireles  25:01

scaring it. It’s like, you have to participate, right? So again, I think it’s also naming and noticing it and and naming that for kids, like, hey. Like, what I found myself doing with students recently is I’m learning these new things. It’s like when we come in, I need you to listen, I need you to look, and I need you to think about what we’re doing. So like, that whole body listening all of those things that we talk about kids. That’s why we’re doing it like we didn’t. Maybe we didn’t know that’s what we were trying to tell kids to do, was to exercise those executive functioning skills, but that’s what we were doing. And so again, it goes back to those SEL lessons and reminding them repeating like this is what we’re doing. If you catch, if you catch your mind wondering, right then we need to bring it back. And you can sometimes tell when a kid’s kind of off, not always because you’re trying to accomplish something and teach your strategy and manage 20 something bodies doing a month, you know, whatever. So naming it for kids, noticing when kids are paying attention and actually following along and executing what you’re asking them to execute, and then reminding them of those lessons that you’ve been teaching them. And this is when you employ that. Like, if, if you’re getting nervous right about to do this, we do then let’s take a deep breath, right? Let’s take it every take a deep breath. Okay, let’s, let’s execute the skill. Or, if you find yourself drifting in attention, right, like, let’s come back, right. Name it. If you need to write something down, I don’t even tell my mom, blah blah, write it down, come back. What do we need to do to re engage? And then sometimes, honestly, it’s a brain break. Maybe you’ve been teaching for too long, you’ve been talking too long, or maybe the lesson went longer than you intended, and maybe it’s time to just take a collective break, and everybody needs to do that right? And then I think it’s also communicating with students and modeling that for kids, right? They’re real quick to look at for your mistakes and point them out to you. So I’ve never met a better editor than a student who has seen me write something wrong on the board, right? So if you’re naming it as something that you guys need to be working on. They are going to call you out when you’re doing it. You’re like, oh, you know what? I do need to refocus, or I need to, you know, I caught myself. I lost my train of thought. How many times have you been in front of a class and all of a sudden, oh, I lost my train of thought. Oh, you know what that was, guys that I need to, I need to refocus, or I need to recenter, because I just lost my train of thought. Boom, bring it back. Because it’s also modeling that it happens to grown ups too sometimes a mistake that we make is lamenting all the things that we see wrong in our students, forgetting that we do them too right and and naming that for children so that they can see that they’re not the only ones that struggle with that and that there’s also a way to mitigate that, like you can. It’s not something not not to discount, right? Our students who have different diagnosis, right? But even if it’s identified and there’s medication, there are still tools that they need in their toolbox to help mitigate that. And so there’s that as well.

Chrissy Beltran  28:00

Yeah, you know, that’s a good point you make about the thing that kids do, a lot of us do with adults as well. I remember one time I was working with a third grade team, and I can’t remember what we were working on, but I referred back to something we had done together previously, the previous week during a PLC meeting. And I got just blank, right? And I was like, Do you remember that we worked on this? So we did this, and they were and the one teacher told me, No, you You never gave us that I was. I said, Yeah, I did. And she was like, no, no, no. You know, I’ve never seen that before. And I just, I literally just went over to a binder, and I flipped over to the last tab because I knew where it was. I think I put it in myself. And she was like, I never have looked at this before last week, like, I get their brains were at capacity, right? It was that time of year. They were just like, done. But I said, you know, it’s good to remember what just happened. Your kids do that same thing, and we’re like, How dare you?

Eva Mireles  28:56

Yes, very upset. Yes. We’re also the worst students as teachers when it comes to like PDS. And sometimes I’m like, Guys, you would be so mad at your students if they were acting like this. Right now, that’s right,

Chrissy Beltran  29:11

I was a bad PD student. I can completely admit this. I was a teacher. I was, I mean, I would learn this stuff, but I was very chatty because I get excited, and I talk about, I can do this, or whatever this, what, and then I sound like I’m not paying any attention. The other thing that you remind reminded me of is some of the things that you talk about, taking the brain breaks, taking, you know, charting out. Okay, what do we do when we feel like this? And what do we do those things during testing? We teach during testing to do those things, but we’re not actively doing it often enough throughout the school year.

Eva Mireles  29:45

Yes, and then how much does that make? Because how many times do we tell teachers that you can’t,

Chrissy Beltran  29:52

yeah, start a new Yeah, you

Eva Mireles  29:54

can’t. Test prep all these reading skills if you haven’t been teaching them, it’s not going to matter. That’s like, right? Don’t bother

Chrissy Beltran  30:01

an accommodation at a kid a multiplication chart on the day of the math test and expect that they’re

Eva Mireles  30:06

going to use it, right? So it’s the same it’s the same thing with these skills, right? So I think it’s really awesome that now it’s like, this common language and this common practice to have this SEL lessons. I remember like when I was teaching, and if I was going to do a morning meeting, I had to close my door and not say anything to anybody about it, because it wasn’t like it wasn’t adopted by everyone yet, right? Like it was taboo when you but you just just did it and didn’t tell anybody about it. So it’s great that it’s, it’s, it’s everywhere now, but now it’s making sure that it really is everywhere, like throughout the day, because it’s not something, right? Our kids emotions don’t just impact them during our money morning meeting or when they have a fight or, you know, something with a with a friend, right? It’s throughout the day that this is impacting them, and it could really be the reason that, or it could be the thing that’s impeding their learning. It could be why you’re not seeing them transfer what they’ve learned?

Chrissy Beltran  31:04

Yes, that’s right, and and so we’re doing a disservice whenever we don’t acknowledge that this is a piece of learning. It’s not just dominate ability to learn math or to learn by they could be these, these processes that are getting in the way of them actually showing what they know or holding on to the information, and if we can build those processes, then we can support them in learning everything, right, that they’re ever going to learn,

Eva Mireles  31:27

like what you mentioned about that teacher and her being at capacity, right? Like they were being at capacity, and you recognizing that that has to do a lot also with our like, fight or flight, and our cortisol levels and all those things, right? So at all times, teachers are real quick to say, I’m I don’t have the bandwidth or whatever. But we don’t think about the kids not having the bandwidth. And we also don’t know what they come to school with. Right now, do we have the luxury of always, of always accommodating the things that they come to school with? No, we don’t, because there’s a million things to do, but we can be cognizant of the fact that you know, like we don’t know what they’re coming to school with and what’s happening in their little lives, in addition to whatever is right that, how are they feeling about their academics and remembering that as well.

Chrissy Beltran  32:14

So my last question, or kind of topic, that I want to dig into, is self regulation, the third process that you mentioned, and I was curious about, how does this develop as students get older? Like, what changes can we expect to see? And then, what are some mistakes that we’re making in this area? You know, I’m sure that you already mentioned one that we kind of just think about it in terms of emotional issues, but not necessarily learning. But so how can we kind of adjust for those mistakes support students in this area just kind of talk about self regulation again.

Eva Mireles  32:46

So when it comes to self regulation, what researchers say is that students do figure it out right, like they have these mechanisms, that they find ways to engage in learning and move through the four levels. The only problem with that is, right? If they learn it wrong, right? Then that’s where the mistakes are made. And then I think the biggest mistakes we make are assuming they come knowing how to do these things. So what I always think about, when I think about this, is when I taught third grade, and I just was flabbergasted why they couldn’t sit there and read a book like, what’s your problem? What’s going on? Why can’t you sit there for the 20 minutes that this book said you’re supposed to sit here for and read this book? Why are you going to the bathroom 100 times? Why are you looking around the room, right? And so, oh, gee whiz. I had to teach you how to do that. So it’s the same thing. We make assumptions that just because kids are in a certain grade or a certain age, they should know Right? And maybe there’s, there are elements of that right, like, where we’re like, because we talk a lot about in education, like, you know, making sure kids go to kindergarten or going to preschool, so that they know what expectations are for learning. But again, we go back to that compliance piece that we think that if they’re sitting there quietly and their bodies are still, that they’re paying attention and that they’re listening, and they may be not right. And so that self regulation piece of the four levels, again, were the observation, emulation, self controlled and self regulated. And so the first two that we have that are reliant on the environment that they’re in is observation and emulation. And so teaching kids, what does it mean when I when we’re paying attention to the teacher or the speaker or whatever it is the video, whatever it is we’re using to learn, what does that mean to actually observe, right? It’s not just sitting here quietly, although I really appreciate that, right? Because we have our friends that can’t do that. So it’s also like making sure your mind is tuned into, well, what we’re talking about, that your eyes are tracking right. They’re where they need to be, right, and that you’re you’re thinking about what’s happening in the moment, right, and then when we emulate. Eight where it’s not just copying what I’m doing, it’s looking at how I’m doing it, why I’m doing it, because ideally, the teacher is doing a think aloud about the process, right? And those are two that are impact, that researchers say are impacted by the environment, and so we have a lot of impact there in making sure that we’re redirecting students to be doing those things once we’ve taught them how to do it. And then the self control level of self regulation is where it’s more about where the the you do part where they can do the thing that you’ve taught them in the way you’ve taught them. So they don’t, they can’t really do it apart from you, you know, all throughout the day, but they can do it in the way you taught them. So that’s where those little anchor charges that teachers like to give kids come in handy, where they can refer to those and then they can refer to them, and then execute that strategy, and then self regulation is when it’s what I think about in literacy, when it comes to they can read the book, and they can make inferences about a variety of things, or they can read a nonfiction text, and so they can apply this skill you’ve taught them all throughout the day. Whenever it comes up, think about math. It’s all about inferencing, right? So and so being able to do that throughout the day at will. So I think the biggest mistake we make is not, is not teaching kids. Well, first, we don’t. We’re not aware, right? We know that learning is a process. We’re just not necessarily making sure that we teach them, the students, what those processes are and what that looks like on their part throughout each process.

Chrissy Beltran  36:26

Yeah, you know, thinking about a chart that I used to do with kids, where I’d say, if I’m teach, like, this is what my responsibility is during this part of the day. So like, if I’m teaching correctly, then this is your responsibility, and if I am doing this, then this is your what you’re doing at that time. So to because I felt like I needed to spell out, if I am giving you direct instruction, your job is to use your brain, like you’re going to say, you know, to think about what I’m doing and to start noticing where you’re getting stuck. And so I’m like, I would spell it out like a two column chart throughout, like, it’s for different parts of the day. If you are working independently, this is what you are doing. Because I felt like they just, yeah, I mean, they were at an age. This was, I used to do this with like, 10 year old, fourth, like, fourth graders, 910, year old. And that seemed to really kind of clear up some things for some kids, first of all, who are a little anxious about different times of the day and like, what is expected of them? Like, my daughter very much likes to know what is expected of her at different parts of her day. And then also kids who were just, I could, like, refer back to it. What time of day is it okay? So what are the expectations for this time? What does that look like? Just to, like, really make it explicit, you know, because I think we do expect that kids just kind of figure things out from school. It reminds me of like, how teachers say use your context clues without ever having actually taught them what those are, right? And so we just expect kids have figured things out, especially once they’re like, I feel like upper elementary. And then beyond that, they have those skills, but if they have those skills, they would probably be using them. They don’t have

Eva Mireles  38:06

them, yes, and they may have some, but they may it, but they may like you. You had mentioned earlier about how kids may wear develop processes that work for a little bit, and then they get older and they hit a wall, right? And so maybe whatever process they worked for them at this stage isn’t going to work for them at this stage. And then something you know, kind of like the teacher that you mentioned that didn’t remember that you gave her the thing, sometimes we just need reminders, right? Like every year I would teach my students, what does it mean to be a reader? What does it mean to be a learner? We talk about growth mindset, right? Had I known this was a thing we talk about, what does it mean to be a learner, right? And then, like anything else, like standing in line and walking down the hall, you revisit those things often, because they like to forget. They will forget. And so it’s the same thing,

Chrissy Beltran  39:00

human very Yes, whenever I told I remember, I told my central office coach about that experience with with that document that the teacher said that she’d never seen before, and my central office coach, she said something I’d never going to forget. She said, It’s not relevant till it’s relevant. So, like, it wasn’t relevant to that teacher whenever they did it, and then later, all of a sudden it’s like, Oh, I found this amazing thing that I really like, and it happens to all of us. We have so much input, only some of it is flagged as relevant to us, and not until that becomes personally relevant is it going to stick to us, you

Eva Mireles  39:35

know? And then the other piece that I’m learning too is just the role that memory plays. And so even if it wasn’t relevant at the time, because you’d already gone over it when it was relevant, right, she had that background knowledge to so it was still important that you went over it when you did and used it when you did, because now she has had that background knowledge, so now when she’s using it. It’s not the first time she’s, you know, necessarily seeing it, right? Yeah? So, like, all of those things play, play a role. So yes, it’s not relevant till it’s relevant, but it’s still important to go over it when you go over it, because then it gives them that background knowledge and that scaffold for when they does become relevant.

Chrissy Beltran  40:17

They’ve had at least one experience with it. So it’s not like, what is this? Have to completely start from scratch.

Eva Mireles  40:22

Yeah? Figure it out. Yes. Which is why, you know, in literacy, we talk a lot about using text for multiple person purposes, using that one text so that the cognitive load they don’t have to then think about, what is this text about? Now I can just talk about the characters. I already know what it’s about, right?

Chrissy Beltran  40:38

Yes, I love that. Thank you so much for everything that you shared today. I thought it was such good information. How can people keep learning from you if they want to follow

Eva Mireles  40:46

up? So I have my own podcast called the reading teachers playbook, and I release episodes bi weekly, because my listeners like to be able to implement what they’ve learned. And then I’m also on Instagram, and I put out a lot of content on there as well.

Chrissy Beltran  41:01

I love it. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you. You know I am sincere when I say that I really loved talking about this with Eva, because I feel like these are such underlying issues that we see playing out in everything that kids do at school that we are not always directly addressing. So if you can take some time with your teachers and find ways to address these, it’s going to go a lot farther than you think. You know, sometimes we feel like we can’t sacrifice that 1015, minutes to have that that like, like Eva mentioned, that classroom meeting, or the, you know the little SEL lesson that we try to squeeze in. If we can make a pattern of this, if we can make a habit of it and really integrate it every week and into our language throughout the school day and into those moments throughout the school day, we can change the way that kids learn, and we can change what we learn forever. So there’s some things to think about, and I hope that you find some tools that you can really implement into your your your teacher, the work with your teachers, and into the way that your school works with kids. So again, this is the last episode in our instruction and lesson planning mini series. I’m so excited next week we’re going to talk about coaching strategy toolbox, and until then, happy coaching.

Chrissy Beltran  42:29

Now that you’ve got so much to think about, head over to buzzing with Miss b.com to grab some free downloads, become a VIBee and check out the podcast show notes. Happy coaching!