Reflecting on Your Fall Semester of Instructional Coaching with Dr. Kim Ramadan, ep. 214

Reflecting on Your Fall Semester of Instructional Coaching with Dr. Kim Ramadan, ep. 214, Instructional Coaching with Ms. B Podcast

Chrissy Beltran 00:01
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Dr. Kim Ramadan 03:56
Thank you so much for having me.

Chrissy Beltran 03:58
So I’d love to kind of get to know you a little bit. I’m familiar with Sibme, but I would love to hear about a few things from you. So who do you help and how do you spend most of your time and energy at work?

Dr. Kim Ramadan 04:09
Yeah, so you know, I do work currently for Sid me, which is an online platform that supports teacher teacher development and teachers being the best they can be. Prior to that, though I have had a lot of experience coaching. Most of my career was in Charlotte, North Carolina, where I was a school based coach. And then I worked for UNC Charlotte, supporting beginning teachers. When I moved to Chicago, an opportunity opened at Sibme, so I took that, but I also do some adjunct work, so I am currently teaching a Field Experience course at Northeastern Illinois University, which is a great opportunity to continue to be in the classroom and also practice what I preach when it comes to like using Sibme in the platform. So it works really well that way. So, yeah. Coaching is definitely my background. I continue to do it as often as I possibly can. That’s really cool. I like the

Chrissy Beltran 05:05
way that’s all come together. Yeah. So then my other question is just the getting to know you question, and it is, what is your go to? Movie, book or TV show, whichever thing you turn to the most, what is the one title that gets you every time?

Dr. Kim Ramadan 05:18
Well, I have always been, ever since the real world, I’ve been a sucker for reality TV. It just, I don’t know why, it’s kind of just like an escape for me. I don’t enjoy drama in my life, but I love watching other people’s drama. So I would say, most recently, with my 70 year old dad, actually, I’ve been watching Love is blind. Oh my gosh. And I can’t, they just dropped new episodes yesterday. So, like, I can’t get enough of it. It’s that, like, very interesting question of, like, Is love a blind and then just watching things happen. But my dad called me today, was like, did you want you Did you see that they dropped new episodes? I just, I just watched, you know, this one, and this is going on. And I’m like, Don’t spoil it for me. 70 year old dad is, like, super into it, which is kind of fun as well. It

Chrissy Beltran 06:05
is so funny. How often people will tell me that their favorite show is a reality show.

Dr. Kim Ramadan 06:09
I mean, it is really escape, you know,

Chrissy Beltran 06:12
I guess so. Yeah, I cannot really relate to that. Okay, yeah, I don’t, but my mom does. My mom is all about as well. So she’s always like, did you watch this? No, you know, I don’t watch those. She’s like, well, you’re watching it today. She’ll just put it on. Yeah. Okay. So what I want to talk about today is kind of helping coaches think about how their fall semester has gone, so that they can make a really good action plan for the spring semester. Because sometimes we come back in the spring. We come back in January, and we’re looking at at our office, and we’re like, Okay, what where, what was happening, and what am I doing? And and I’d love to help people get a really good plan in place. You know, it’s this is coming out in November, and so by the time they have listened to all the episodes in the series, they will be able to have a document that will help them be ready to go for next semester. So how should we be thinking differently about the upcoming spring semester than we were thinking in the fall semester? How does that look?

Dr. Kim Ramadan 07:08
Yeah, well, I mean, a lot’s happened, right? Like we and by the time spring hits, we know our students really well. We’re not starting from a place of getting a brand new group of students as a teacher we have, so we have that under about where we know the students, and I think, you know, there, there are times where we’re we’re doing some data collection, and we have more information that’s updated at this point. I think we have to look at the goals that have been set previously in the in the fall. You know, what have you been working on? Was it more geared towards routines and procedures, and like setting up your your classroom and making things run smoothly? So now, how do I increase the rigor of that goal for my teachers? You know? How do I push the envelope a little bit? I think it’s it’s fine to kind of take a step back and maybe get a new picture of reality. Because perhaps we’ve had Thanksgiving break, and perhaps we’ve had winter break, and so now we just might need to step back and take take a wider view. So maybe you start over with, you know, a picture of reality, of and of what what does this look like, what is this, you know? So I think that’s a good place to start. It’s not starting over. So it’s certainly not starting over because you’ve already been in this role for half of a year, but it might be taking a step back, looking at data to kind of inform that, that decision about what’s needed. And I think it’s a really great time too, to start like collaboration amongst teachers too. We don’t have the overwhelm of beginning of the year and so many new things and new initiatives and new curriculum and new students. We’re now maybe able to also incorporate some collaboration amongst teachers too. Obviously, being with Sibme and the video platform, we believe a lot in recording ourselves teach, watching ourselves teach. We have a new AI component that allows teachers to run AI reports, so just kind of taking a step back and and taking a wider view, maybe a more of a bird’s eye view, then maybe we were super focused for the first fall semester on what on those goals? That might be where I would start?

Chrissy Beltran 09:28
Yeah, I like that. I like that idea about saying, Okay, we’ve done all kinds of things in the fall. Let’s pull back and see how is it going across our school, not just individual teachers, but in general. And so I like the idea of gathering information to reflect on our work at this point and start thinking, okay, so if we’re taking this wider view, how are we gathering that information? Where are we? Where are we looking to tell us what the big picture is?

Dr. Kim Ramadan 09:53
Yeah, yeah. And I think I’ll add just as you were saying that too at this point. We probably know too, who our teacher leaders might be like people that we can kind of plug into those roles. I think, as a coach, my job was to kind of work myself out of a job and try to replicate myself in some ways. So who are the teachers that are knocking it out of the park in these certain areas, and how can we leverage them as leaders? And it could be a first year teacher, it could be a third year teacher, it could be a veteran. It doesn’t really matter, but whatever your focus is, as a school, who’s doing it really well, and can we leverage them to help support the other people in the building? Because if you’re only one person, which often you are, you know, I’m here in Chicago, and I’m really surprised when I moved here, how there were not, there were not coaches in every single building. When I was in North Carolina, there were, like, many coaches in the building, and I was one of them. So, so we have to, at some point replicate ourselves and like, who can help us with that, and who’s willing to kind of put their work out there and support each other?

Chrissy Beltran 11:00
Yeah, I think that’s a great, a great thing to think about, a good shift to make, saying a lot of things are established and people have been working towards these goals already. So how can we, like leverage that? That’s awesome. So then, in terms of of reflecting and kind of seeing where we are with the big picture, what are some methods that you use to gather that information? I

Dr. Kim Ramadan 11:20
mean, video, obviously, is a really important part of what we do. I’ll take a step back and just kind of explain what that process looks for us. Because you don’t, you don’t need Sibme. There are other places, obviously, I work for them, with them, and use them. So that’s going to be the where I go to. But, I mean, you have a phone, right, that’s able to record. So I think, as a teacher being able, and as a coach, being able to record a video and just reflect on usually, I try to give some sort of protocol, like, if I’m having my teachers watch the video first, what are three things that you saw that you really liked? And Sibme, you can timestamp these, but you don’t have to what’s at least one question that you have for me as your coach, and what’s one thing you would change so kind of setting like some very specific parameters. And you can get even deeper with that if you want specific, more specific questions based on your goals. But I think sometimes, like saying I want you to go reflect to a teacher is not always something that’s really intuitive. You have to kind of guide that process a little bit. So teacher goes and records their lesson. We both watch it, and then we come to the table and talk about what those what those goals might be. But as a coach, I’m also recording my coaching conversations because I want to get feedback, even if it’s reflection, just with me or with my assistant principal or with another coach. I want to record those, those conversations too, to make sure that I’m also engaging in the reflection conversation. It’s not just about the teacher, right? I’m practicing what I what I preach, in those ways. So you know, it’s, I think it’s all about, you know, that’s one piece of data. So you have the video, that’s great. You also have some of those more formal data pieces. If you do NWA or maps or whatever, you have those pieces of data on how your students are doing. You also have probably school wide goals that you’re working towards. You’re going to want to make sure you’re keeping those in mind and like, how are you doing? As far as that goes, probably some sort of formal evaluation that someone has done with those teachers. So keeping that in mind as well, and all of those people, all of those pieces can kind of inform what your next steps are.

Chrissy Beltran 13:38
Yeah, I like that. I like that idea of going back to your own coaching conversations and saying, okay, noticing things that things are doing well, areas you want to grow. And also maybe what keeps coming up would be interesting to think about, because that could help us frame, okay. This is kind of like whenever you’re a teacher in the classroom and you have 70% of your kids need something Well, that’s your whole group instruction. You’re not going to intervene individually with that. So then, what can we take from those conversations we keep having and put at the front or tier one for our teachers and provide PD in those areas?

Dr. Kim Ramadan 14:09
Yeah, my, you know, with Sibme and with the AI reports, you can run a report and it lists all the questions. It transcribes the whole video, but it lists all the questions that you’ve asked I’m interested in, and it also does teacher talk time versus student talk time, or coach versus teacher, right? I’m interested in, like, who’s doing the talking in those coaching conversations, and also what kind of questions I’m asking. And then it summarizes and gives key takeaways. So like, you’re saying, across all of the teachers that I’m coaching, what are, what are the trends that I’m seeing? What do they need, what do they not need, and how can I kind of maybe group them together, so it’s not always coaching individuals. Maybe it also can be be coaching groups too. I imagine caseloads are pretty high and it’s hard to get to everyone. So can I personalize professional work? Learning in a way that that groups those people together based on what they need. But it’s not always this one on one conversation too. Yeah. I

Chrissy Beltran 15:08
like that. That is really cool. Yeah. So I have a question about kind of like you mentioned earlier, many coaches are the only coach on their campus, and I was not the only coach. I was only literacy coach, but I also had a math and science coach that I would work with, and then I had this whole leadership team that we really had developed. But even having a team to work with, sometimes you your perspective gets stuck in your own little school bubble. You know what I mean? You see things and you’re like, I’ve tried this, I’ve done this, I’ve done this, and you’re just stuck. And so do you have some thoughts on when we really need to make change happen? What are some different ways that we can think about our coaching work that’ll help us see things beyond our little bubble and help us change our perspective?

Dr. Kim Ramadan 15:50
Yeah. I mean, I always when I from the very beginning, when I first started coaching, I always read a lot about coaching from a lot of different authors. I mean, of course, there’s like, Jim Knight, Elena Aguilar that you go on and on, the list goes on and on. So there’s always this kind of learning that you can do on your own. But honestly, recently I’ve been and this is how we connected. I think I’ve been really into, like, the social media presence and how that how these communities exist for with people from all over the country, all over the world, and it’s with a click of a button. So there’s a Facebook group that I’m a part of, where coaches are asking questions to each other and, like, really trying to dig in and support each other. There are Instagram people on Instagram, which is where you know you and I connected as well. Like there, there are definitely networks that you can create that are beyond your building, because sometimes you just need a thought partner that’s not that doesn’t know the teachers that are in that building, somebody who is like, disconnected from that. I have, I mean, when I was doing my masters and my PhD, there are certain coaches that I connected with, and I lean on them sometimes, and we have brunch and we just talk, and so just kind of those, those connections, and that networking that you’ve done with people outside of your school is always, is always helpful. It’s making time for that, that that sometimes is tricky, but I think, you know, and you can set up something that’s more more regular, you know, with with a group of people who are not necessarily just in your building, if you wanted to. Yeah,

Chrissy Beltran 17:27
I love that. I used to work with. Whenever I was a campus coach, I had friends who had, I had taught with, and they kind of, you know, saw instruction similarly, and I value their opinion on instruction. And so they had become coaches as well in other schools. And so then we could talk, and we could just have conversations about what was happening, and what do we think the real issue is here, and that was really helpful to me. And then also, I have a Facebook group now, just like you mentioned, that’s a great place to get people’s input on ideas. I mean, you can even post something anonymously, if you don’t want to put yourself out there, but you do want to get feedback. People do that all the time, and so it’s instructional coaching with Miss B on Facebook. And I just love it whenever people are like, Okay, this is what’s going on. What are your thoughts? And then there’s all different kinds of perspectives on that, because we all have such different experience and background, and our schools are so different, so the kind of work we’re doing is so different, yeah,

Dr. Kim Ramadan 18:19
and we don’t always have to agree, right? One of the customers that I was talking to at Sibme, we really, we were, I’m more of a thought partner for her, she’s a brand new coach, and so she’s kind of developing what does coaching look like in her school, and she’s part of a different cohort in her district. And she was like, this one coach was talking about this thing that she did, and she’s like, I don’t necessarily agree with that. I’m like, that’s fine. Like, you don’t have to take what someone says and make it your own. I think part of this, just because you’re a newer coach doesn’t mean you need to do everything that everyone else is doing right. And sometimes it’s learning, like, what you don’t want to do, and that’s okay, you know? I think that’s that’s okay too. But, yeah, I think there’s definitely so many different avenues in social media that you can connect with people from anywhere. That’s one of the benefits of technology these days. Yes. And so I think getting out there and figuring it out and following one person, and then that’ll lead to following a bunch of other people and just creating this space of support. You know?

Chrissy Beltran 19:21
Yeah, easy way to do it is you read the comments, and so you see a post, you read the comments, you see somebody who’s like, Oh, I like what they have to say. And now you found that person. And so now you found and that person. So sometimes you’re reading the posts that are people like, who, you know, work for companies and businesses, and you’re learning from them. But then the comments are just people who are like, trying to implement that stuff, you know? So I think that’s a great way.

Dr. Kim Ramadan 19:44
Yeah, 100%

Chrissy Beltran 19:45
so then what does goal setting look like this time of year? And because you mentioned before about like looking at your previous goals and kind of working off of that. But should we be adjusting our previous goals? Should we create new ones? Should we do a little of both? What are your thoughts? Yeah.

Dr. Kim Ramadan 20:01
I mean, it really, really depends, you know, I think one of the things, one of the really tricky things about being a coach is, well, there’s a lot of things but, but knowing kind of this trajectory of where you want a teacher to head. Because I know the beginning of the year, I have a beginning teacher that I’m working with. So we’re going to start probably with, how do we set up our classroom routines and procedures that in itself, that one goal has so many different parts to get from point A to point Z, and so that big goal is separated into many, many goals. But then my next goal might be this, and then I might move more towards, like, analyzing student data when they’re ready, you know. And this lar, I know in my head where this person is headed, probably at the beginning of the year, I can map out where they’re headed all year long, if, if it’s, if it’s a predictable pattern, right? But they can’t know that, because that’s overwhelming, you know, that’s overwhelming for them. But in my mind, I know we’re going to go from here to here to here to here, and the the little pieces in between. It just depends on how long that takes, you know, and each person is at their own, different levels of reflection, different levels of like pace and moving through goals. So I don’t think it’s I think sometimes we feel like, oh, it’s January. We just got back from winter break. We’ve got to start fresh, and we have to have a new goal right now, because it’s January 5, right? And I just don’t believe that. I think it’s kind of like you also can carry on from where you were before, but we can’t stay at the same time. We can’t stay in setting up our classroom procedures for the entire year, right? That’s not gonna get us like that has to happen quickly, because we gotta move on to like, the actual instruction, or the analyzing student learning and and also one you know, you can have multiple goals happening at once. So it’s not like I’m only working on setting up my classroom routines and procedures and then I go to here, although we know, as coach coaches, there’s usually a systematic way of going about things. So I think it just depends on where you are. I don’t think it has to be January 5. When we come back from winter break, you’re starting a new goal, because it’s January 5. I just don’t believe it. I don’t really believe in New Year’s resolutions either. So maybe it’s a lot of sales, you know, it’s just not for me.

Chrissy Beltran 22:36
Yeah, I’m the same way. I’m not a big resolution person. At any point I can decide I’m going to do this and it doesn’t happen, like a New Year’s resolution. And I also think that just the act of those resolutions is so overwhelming that it doesn’t happen. You know, it’s just, it’s just not real well to me, maybe some people, but it doesn’t work for me. Yeah, I much prefer to say, oh, there may be some adjustments, and that may be a good time, like you said, to take stock of your whole school and say, Okay, this is how I’m going to approach this differently. If I look at my whole group and like my PD, if I look at my PLC, I’m going to make these adjustments based on the information that I gathered. Maybe you got a teacher survey about PLCs, you got some information from them about how they felt like they’re being supported or not supported, and you can make adjustments based on those things. And I think that’s great. And those could be like your personal goals that you work on as a coach, that you may adjust at that time, because it is a good time to take a pause and get a big picture. But I do also agree that when you’re working with teachers, just because the year, one year has ended and another has begun, they are not necessarily like, Okay, I’m done with that now. Now I’m done. I figured it all out, and I’m ready to move to move to something else, but to really think about where are they individually and make sure that we are still honoring wherever they are while moving forward so we don’t get stuck. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like that. Well, thank you so much for sharing all of this information with us today. How can people keep learning from you if they want to learn a little bit more?

Dr. Kim Ramadan 24:00
Yeah, the easiest way is to follow me on Instagram. I’m at Dr Kim coaching, Dr Kim coaching, and you can follow my my colleague as well. Dr, Corey camp or not? Doctor, sorry, at Corey camp coaching on IG, and then that’s the easiest way. I think we are posting a lot of information. We’re trying to keep things up doing reels and also not we don’t just focus on Sibme, but we also have our own show that we produce once a month, so we have new content coming out then too. So yeah, at Dr Kim coaching on Instagram. Yeah,

Chrissy Beltran 24:37
I love that. Corey was a guest on this podcast a few seasons ago to talk about video coaching. She was great and and then I did the Sibme replay, the replay show that show that comes out regularly. Yeah, that’s a good one. There’s all kinds of really cool episodes that you guys are going to want to check out of that. And thank you so much for being here today.

Dr. Kim Ramadan 24:56
My pleasure.

Chrissy Beltran 25:00
Now, see, that’s why you have to talk to people outside of your bubble, right? Because if I had just done what I usually do, to think about how I’m going to, you know, think about the spring semester, I wouldn’t have included some of those things that Dr Ramadan just shared, and they were so good. So I definitely think you should follow them on Instagram. Sibme is a great resource, and I’ve talked about them on this podcast before it’s awesome for video coaching. And again, you don’t have to have Sibme to do video coaching. If you’ve got questions about that, you should check out my episode with Corey all about video coaching back from season two, I think. And and there’s a lot of great ideas, and it was such a powerful episode I talk about all the time. Next week, we’re going to look at the three parts of your action plan for the spring semester, and I’m really excited to share that with you, because I’m gonna break down what components you need for your school wide coaching plan. Because we know we coach individual teachers, we often coach PLC together, and we often coach across the school with PD. So we’re gonna talk about three tiers, tier one, two and three, and how you’re going to support your teachers this spring. And until then, happy coaching. Now that you’ve got so much to think about, head over to buzzing with Miss b.com to grab some free downloads, become a VIB and check out the podcast. Show Notes. Happy coaching!