Working Towards Goals Through Coaching Cycles with Sherry St. Clair, Ep. 166 Instructional Coaching with Ms. B

Working Towards Goals Through Coaching Cycles with Sherry St. Clair, Ep. 166 Buzzing with Ms. B: The Coaching Podcast

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Hey Coach, I know you’re out there hustling to get into classrooms and provide feedback that actually improve instruction. But meeting your teachers needs when you’re looking at a stack of sticky notes is just about impossible. I want to share a coaching tool that I know you’ll love. Digicoach is an app you can use on your phone designed for busy coaches like you and your administrators to it’s the perfect way to record your observations and notes when you visit a classroom. Collect data about what’s going on at your school and differentiate your coaching support based on the patterns you see. Some of my favorite features include the reports, and digit coaches pre written strategies and coaching tips to provide specific feedback and help in those moments when you just don’t know what to say. Ready to check it out and make your workload so much lighter, head to digicoach.com And tell them Ms. B sent you to try it out for free and provide actionable feedback to your teachers.

00:55

As the literacy coach at an elementary school, I spent so much time trying to find the perfect supplemental resources for my teachers. That’s why I am so excited to share a special resource with you today. decodable texts are essential for our students who are working on mastering phonics in primary grades especially, I have come across the sweetest decodable books that I love and my kindergarten daughter loves them too. They’re called Express Readers. Each book has a complete storyline includes fun and funny characters like bug and duck. And the stories are engaging and increasing complexity over time as to the words and sentence structures on each page. Sticky words are identified in each book to help children with words they aren’t able to decode yet, or those with irregular spelling patterns. There’s a perfect resource for giving students at your school the practice they need and applying phonics skills, head to expressreaders.org and visit the Decodable Books page. There you can download a quick keys guide with teaching tips for each book, including teaching sticky word mapping, you can also get free sample decodable sent to your address, head to express readers.org If you’re building your phonics instruction, and you’re ready for some really great readers

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You’re listening to buzzing with Miss B the coaching podcast where we believe that every teacher deserves a coach, and every coach does too. I’m Chrissy Beltran, an instructional coach, resource creator and coffee enthusiast, and I’m your host, stay tuned for practical tips and honest coaching talk that will help you coach with confidence.

02:34

Hey, coach, and welcome to episode 166. Goal focused coaching cycles with Sherry St. Clair, thank you so much for listening to buzzing with Ms. B the coaching podcast this month is all about coaching cycles, we’re looking at how we can refine our coaching cycles to make them truly effective for teachers. And this is really the number one tool that we have to support teacher growth. So we want to maximize the time we spend with it. Especially because we know that making the time to get into classrooms can sometimes be a real challenge when you’re fighting, the constant push for you to do other things. My guest today is Sherry St. Clair, she is going to help us identify ways we can help teachers focus their work with us on goals and move them towards those goals through coaching cycles. I cannot wait to welcome her.

03:20

So Sherry, welcome to the podcast.

03:24

Thank you, thank you for the opportunity to speak about coaching. I’m so excited to hear what you have to say today. And I know my listeners are too. So can you introduce yourself a little bit talk about who you are, how you ended up here, and maybe a little bit about the work that you’re focusing on right now.

03:39

Sure. So my name is Sherry St. Clair, I’m president of Reflective Learning, author of Coaching, Redefined, and currently working on another book, on instructional strategies, hopefully for teachers and coaches. But I started off as well, a teaching assistant actually, and then as a teacher of elementary school, moved to high school where I’ve worked as an administrator in the area of instructional leadership. And from there, I moved to the State Department in Kentucky and worked as a middle and high school consultant. And from there, my National Work grace. So I left our state system and now have this sincere privilege for many years to get to work with schools all over the world. I love, love, love what I get to do. All of my work is in the area of instructional leadership. I work with instructional coaches, with teachers, and school administrators and district leaders as avail.

04:44

All in the area of instructional leadership coaching that way. How interesting. So, you know, I know that one of the things that you’re very knowledgeable about is coaching cycles, and that’s why I wanted you to come on the podcast this week, because this month the theme is coaching cycles, and we’re really digging into it.

05:00

Trying to make sure that we’re maximizing the time that we spend with teachers, because it can be so difficult for coaches to even get in the classrooms in the first place, which sounds backwards. But it is true.

05:12

So I would love it is true, right? It doesn’t make any sense. But seems like the hardest thing for coaches to do is coach.

05:21

So we’re really looking at coaching cycles. And one of the questions I’ve gotten a lot is about goals. So could you explain a little bit about where goal setting sort of fits into the coaching cycle?

05:34

Sure, yes. And I was really excited to be asked to be on to talk about this part, too. So I thought this was a perfect match for conversation. So of course, we want to have goals with coaching, we want to know where we’re headed, and if we are making a difference if it’s working, and if it’s not working. So yes, you definitely want to have goals with each teacher. And what I have found through research, and quite frankly, on the ground work of doing this for years, is that we, we are really good about making those goals too big. So as I have grown, in my

06:22

knowledge of instructional leadership, I have found that

06:28

if we can make those goals smaller, and more intentional, we’ll actually see more growth.

06:36

We need to set those goals with the teacher. And we need to keep in mind what the research says about setting goals. So one of the things that Adam love, and people who follow my work will know is I love to follow the business world and learn about leadership and research around leadership. From the business world, I was really privileged to have Daniel Pink endorsement book. And one of the things I love about Daniel Pink’s work is his research around what motivates people to change. And Daniel Pink mentions in his work about if we want people to change, then they need autonomy, mastery, and purpose. So keep that in mind as you’re working with teachers to set their goals, autonomy, they have choice, mastery, they feel like they can make it purpose, they see themselves as part of the bigger picture. So it’s okay, if, for example, one of the things that I frequently works with schools with is, it’s okay, through, you’re going to work on engagement. But what does engagement mean to that one teacher, not all teachers are on the same level with understanding engagement, or comfort of moving towards increasing engagement in their classroom. So you have to break that down to say,

08:01

coach coaching Sherry, she might be working on cognitive engagement, and what inside of cognitive engagement would make a goal. So get really intentional with those goals with that teacher, so that they can feel like they have a choice, that they feel like that’s something they can master. And then they see that as part of the bigger picture within the school. That’s where I see the greatest growth. But that doesn’t say that we stay on that goal for four years, if you know, sometimes you work with a teacher, and they’re on that goal for a couple of months. Sometimes they’re on it for a full year.

08:36

People grow at different paces. And that’s okay, as long as they’re growing. But definitely pull from that research, and what it says about how people grow. And that’ll help the teacher and help you the coach as well. That makes so much sense. You know, I’m hearing that we’re looking at a focus goal, like something very specific. And I like that, what you’re saying is you’re kind of adding some understanding to the teacher’s toolbox right off the bat, because you’re saying, Okay, we are looking at engagement, that’s the big umbrella. But within it, these are all some all the different kinds of things that we could look at. And because sometimes if you just say, Well, what is it that you’d like to focus on with engagement? They’re like, I don’t know, I would like my kids to do what I asked them to do. And, like, okay, and so then we have to kind of refine that and add something to their understanding before we can set that very narrow goal.

09:26

Absolutely. And so you say, you know, would it be behavioral engagement, emotional engagement, cognitive engagement, what would be your, your goal to focus on as we as the school move towards this common goal of engagement? You know, we’re talking about collective efficacy and everybody having that same understanding, that all plays into that piece as well as you’re keeping them moving towards that common understanding, but they have choice and they feel like it’s something that they can do and that it will help them you

10:00

Yes, and you know, I just really love that I pick, I mean, I kind of envision it sort of as like a, a tear, like we talked about tier one, instruction tier two and tier three. And that’s something that I come back to a lot as a coach like this is your, your tier one is kind of your PD. And it’s what your whole school is working on. Your tier two is like your PLCs. And it’s like differentiated based on grade or team or content. And then your tier three is your individualized coaching cycles, not that it’s like about a level of of struggle or intervention, it’s just about the differentiation level, you know, the way that we’re personalizing it, so much of that tier three, and I just liked that so much, because you can keep schools real realistically, schools have things they’re working on. That’s just how it is. So if we can give teachers choice and freedom within that, we’re still honoring that they’re an individual with individual understanding, and you know, personal goals, but we are working towards the school goals.

10:52

That’s right. And we want schools to have those goals, right. We don’t want to walk into a school that has no vision of where they’re going, instructionally talking, and so we want the schools to have those plans, those visions based on data. But then we have to break that down to what does that mean, for the individual teacher? And when I say we, we do that in partnership with that teacher by our side? Yes, that makes sense. So do you have a structure for writing goals that you really like? Like, I know, some people are very tied to smart goals? Some people are, you know, these other structures? Is there a structure that you think works best?

11:35

I do like smart goals. And I know some people don’t like them. And they always don’t work perfectly with coaching that I try to stick to that structure as much as possible. But I really think that the biggest piece of that is to make it small, and make it an intentional step. That’s where I think I’ve had the greatest aha moment is to really make it explicit, and small, so that you can just go en and

12:12

discuss that, look for that. And that. Also, what I have found in working with coaches, and administrators who don’t necessarily have coaches in their building, but they’re, they’re the only instructional leader that’s, that’s in that building, when when I see leaders do that, then it helps on that piece of I don’t have time to coach everybody, I don’t have time to see everybody, because the conversation doesn’t have to be as long. So sometimes I will walk into schools and coaches are spin and 45 minutes with a teacher. Well, of course, you don’t have enough time to get to every teacher, if you’re spending 45 minutes with them. This calendar, just that’s not realistic. So if you can create the smaller, intentional steps, then you can go on and you can see that in 10 minutes, 15 minutes and limit that conversation, that coaching conversation to that as well. And the more focused you are, the more focused that teacher is, then you can see that growth and then bump that went off and go to another goal with them. That makes so much sense. I do Mark. Yeah. But more intentional. And that’s really crazy. That’s, that’s my next book. That’s what I’m writing on and what I’m researching right now, because I feel like we get stuck in this big picture piece. And we forget that there’s 1000 steps that it takes to get there, huh? Yeah, those small incremental changes are what are it’s really going to support the teacher and growing throughout the year, just like with students, and I think we kind of lose track of that because they’re adults. But with students, you don’t say, Oh, this kid needs to have amazing, fantastic, you know, number sense, they need to be acing their math test right now, that’s not realistic. We say Okay, what’s next, let’s look at what they’re doing now, and figure out what piece I can work on next. And we do it with kids a little bit at a time. But with teachers, it’s like the change needs to happen fast. And it’s true. Schools do need to change to happen quickly, because kids are in those classrooms. But you can’t dump everything a teacher does just start over, because they’re an educator, they have experience, they have thought they have ideas, they’ve been doing things and and and so this choosing something like engagement, you mentioned, choosing one small component of engagement that can support that teacher throughout their whole day, throughout their whole week. It’s something that is underlying, you know, it’s not so content based. It’s an underlying thing that should be present all the time. But it’s one small thing that they can try to work on.

14:49

That’s right, and it can stay in their mind then if they have this huge piece that there’s a million pieces that we’ve gone over 20 different strategies and now you pick one if that’s going through there

15:00

Mind, and they have everything else on their plate, it’s so hard for them to focus on that. And

15:07

honestly, that that has come

15:10

to me through work it just as for failure of coaching, and just I’ve had to learn that, but that is where I see that the biggest transformation is if we can just take 1000 Small steps, and really honor that teachers growth and, and movement. I like that. I do. Do you have, like, an example of a goal, like, let’s say, thinking about engagement? And what could it sound like? If I know that you don’t, you know, you probably don’t have anything written out. But this was your experience, is there anything that you can share that would help us think about this as we frame goals.

15:49

So let’s say that a teacher is working on, we’ll just stick with engagement, since we’re talking about it today.

15:59

Let’s say that the school is working on engagement, then, you know, that’s the big

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catch work for the year, but the teacher wants to work when, let’s say cognitive engagement, they, they want to make sure that the students are thinking about the content they’re teaching, and then they can tell that the students are thinking about the content that they’re teaching, then a goal might be three times in a class, I will ask students to reflect on their thinking about my subject material.

16:37

And that, I’m just making that up out of the blue. So that might be not be that the most refined example there. But that is something that we can sit there and think about do that this teacher really asked students to reflect on that no matter what their teaching style is. So if we walk into a classroom, and this teacher is doing 100% lecture, did they stop three times during that and say, What are your thoughts about what I just discussed? Do a quick right, share with your neighbor, or let me hear your feedback just did they stopped three times if you have a teacher who’s really trying to grow in the area of cognitive engagement, and they are the basic start level, that that’s a good goal for them, that they can just three times during that class period, stop and do that. Now another teacher, that’s not going to be a good goal, they might ask 1000 questions during the class period. And their cognitive engagement piece might be I want students to think deeper about this, I want them to be able to justify what they’re saying with evidence of something that we’ve either discussed or read. So their goal might be many times during the class, I’m going to ask students to justify pulling from evidence to show me that they are cognitively engaged, I think you have to take the teacher from where they are, and what their next step would be. What would be a good goal for you is not going to be a good goal for me. We’re different, just like you mentioned, students in class students are different. Our teachers are different. They have different needs. And what’s a good golfer one is not necessarily a good golfer another. So that would be just the two probably that.

18:35

Yeah, show you how to, you know,

18:38

I like that. Yeah, I think that’s really important to consider, because you’re right, just quantifying it is where some people are like actually doing the work, actually trying it out, is a good place to start. But then we can think about quality, once they have the act under their belt, I know how to do it, I have done it. Now let’s think about how this is impacting students, which ones are higher quality than others, which ones suit my purpose better. So I like that a lot.

19:02

So as you’re trying to figure out like you’re coordinating with your teacher, let’s say you set some some a goal for the work that you’re going to do together at the beginning of a coaching cycle. And then you’re kind of making a decision about what that support is going to look like whether you’re just going to observe and provide feedback, whether you’re going to do some modeling or some co teaching whether you need to learn about it. How can coaches really kind of walk teachers through that process and help them choose the right type of support that’s actually going to get teachers to work towards these goals?

19:34

Well, so I’ve always liked to tell coaches know as much about your teachers as you can. That’s one of those pillars that I believe are important for coaches to have a strong relationships with their teachers. I believe coaches should

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be studying leadership skills, content, and know how to develop strong relationships with them.

20:00

Those that they serve, but to just to sit down beside them. And that’s sometimes my question is, how can I serve you? What do you need? What will help you, that’s what I’m here for is to help you. So just asking that question and listening to them, and, and then sometimes as a coach, you’re thinking, that’s not going to help you, Sherry, I know, you’re just going to ask me to come in, go teach and then not do anything with it or whatever that might be. And so sometimes that you will have to do a little bit of pushing and, and set an aqua vision cast. And I would love to see you, at some point, think about that in just a day, or one of the ideas that I have is possibly a sitting down, and let’s talk about different ideas for cognitive engagement. And then maybe you can pick one, or you don’t let go of that knowledge that you have, in other words, for them to lead you down a path that’s that you don’t believe is going to help them. But that’s a balancing act. It is. And I think a big piece of that is what you mentioned with a teacher, we have to know about our teachers, and they have to know about us. And they have to believe that we really are sincere whenever we say, You know what, I think we could do some co teaching together what might benefit this process is before we do the co teaching, maybe we can do a little, a little research on some ideas, and then do some collaborative planning so that whenever we actually co teach together, we know what options we want to implement. And that way, teachers believe that you that you really are saying, I really believe this is the best thing. I’m not trying to give you more work. I’m not trying to tell you no, I’m not going to do your work for you. No, that’s not what’s happening. I am saying, let’s let’s do this the best possible ways to get the best out of that co teaching.

21:55

Absolutely. And then have reflection of our co teaching and have accountability based on that co teaching Yes. So that you’re helping them to move forward. Yes, co teaching has its own whole special thing. And it took me a really long time to get comfortable with it. And I had to figure out how do I make this, we are co teaching that I’m doing a thing. Now you’re doing a thing? No, I’m doing thing. Now you’re doing a thing, right? I had to figure out okay, how are we both teaching this so that it’s actually going to benefit kids for having two people in the room not just taking turns. And that we’re actually collaborating and talking about how things are going as the lesson is moving on? That’s the benefit. But if if we’re not comfortable with it, it can feel very overwhelming. So I think that accountability with co teaching is very important. Because it’s not supposed to be essentially modeling like you’re supposed to be working together, you know, not just taking turns modeling for the other.

22:49

And I think that can be very hard to figure out how to navigate it first. Right? And if it’s not done correctly, it’s an event that comes and goes and nothing happens. So yes, yeah. Thinking about the discussion. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It’s true. Thinking about how to bridge that co teaching into implementation in the classroom. But that’s, that’s really kind of, I mean, all of the coaching work we do we always have to have a plan for, or at least a thought to, how is this work we’re doing together going to be sustained in the classroom, when I am not doing this work with a teacher, we are always trying to build the capacity so that the teacher is implementing things and doing things and has has new tools in their toolbox that will remain there when we leave. It’s kind of like a student in your class who reads for points, but then they don’t read because they read, you know, is it we we don’t want to build that relationship that the teacher is only doing the things because your presence.

23:47

Right, right.

23:49

So yeah, and so one of the things that you had asked about the structure of it. So one of the things that I’ve also found really beneficial in my structure is to have a just some note taking a note taking structure in place. And that is at the top of that those notes is always the goal of this teacher. And I’ve done that because quite frankly, I can’t keep up with all the goals of the people that I’m working with, because I’m all over the place. So you know, it’s a little bit for me, that I have that coaching goal at the top and when I’m coming into a classroom that’s coming up on my computer, their goal and that is right in my mind. So when I’m in that classroom, I’m looking specifically for that. And Christy, you know, there’s 1000 Things happen in a classroom, we can go off and see all of the things that are happening and get us off track really quickly. But I try to stay focused on what evidence do I see connected to that goal, and that’s what goes in my notes. And then when I’m meeting with the teacher

25:00

may get a copy of all those notes that I have put in there. And then at the end of that, I had just a little spot to where we talk about next steps. And I’ll have a spot where I put like,

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if I share a resource that’s so again, that that’s just for them to know and for me to remember. And but then I also have this accountability piece built in to say, what will you try within the next two weeks, and that keeps that flow going. And then when I come back in that classroom, I’m bringing that set of running records up again, that goals there, I can go back and look and see, what did I share with them? What did they say they would do? Am I seeing evidence of that. And that really helps me as a coach to be able to just keep it straight in my mind and keep those conversations focused. And keep them shorter, those meetings shorter. So I can sit down with the teacher and say, Chrissy, we’re here to talk about your goal of blah, blah, blah, and then go straight to that those notes versus getting myself off task and giving them so many ideas that don’t want to help them with their goal. That makes sense. So your coaching conversations are very focused and purposeful on this one thing, and you have this guide in kind of in the form that you’re using. That helps you say, Okay, we’re going to we’re going to talk a little bit about these things. And we’re going to plan for next steps. What other what all does goes into those coaching conversations? Is it really just pretty much what you just mentioned in terms of like, the components that you’re recording?

26:41

Yes. And so no, I’m not saying don’t say no, how are you, Christy, how

26:48

the personal, normal human things? Yeah, we’re, let’s get on with it. You know, yeah, you want to build that relationship, but peace, but you also want to honor their time, and honor your time, as well, because we never in education have enough time. So they will appreciate it if you’re more concise, and that they’re, they know that they’re not sitting down with Sherry, and she’s gonna talk about stuff that doesn’t matter. For 45 minutes, Sherry’s gonna sit down with me, she’s gonna have a focused conversation, I’m going to be in there and out of there, get what I mean, but

27:28

I have only so much time. And so I really like to push coaches to think about 1015 minute conversations, what can you say we can say a lot, have a lot of conversation in 10 or 15 minutes. And you can maximize your impact in at the school more if you can have more frequent, shorter conversations than than these long ones. So basically, we sit down, we go over the goal is that this is what we’re focusing on. Then we go over my notes. And again, those notes are just what evidence did I see based on that goal? If I see something that really thinking, you know, I’ve seen this six times in shares class, and it just keeps coming up.

28:19

Then it might be that I just weave it in there to say Sherry in time, I hope that we can think about the students over here that are not as cognitively engaged or you know, whatever it might be. But if it’s not connected to that goal, then bring them back to the goal that were there that we’re talking about, and say, but for now, let’s focus on here. No, this is in the back of my mind. And we want it to be maybe our next goal, or it’s or I’m thinking about it for future conversations. But for day, let’s stay focused here. And so the reason I do that is because if the teacher is ready for growth in that other area, they might go ahead and just work on that area to make that, that they shouldn’t have any question about what it is that I saw and connected with a goal and what I hope to see when I come back, when I leave, I’m proud of the fact that focus conversation. Yeah, I’m glad you mentioned that. Because sometimes you’re working with a teacher, you’re having a coaching cycle focused on a goal that you set together. But then you know, classrooms are very real places with lots of moving parts. And sometimes you’re like this is we’re working on this. But the underlying issue, you know, for example, we’re working on, you know, on, let’s say,

29:44

cognitive engagement, but the underlying issue is they don’t listen to this teacher when she talks.

29:50

The management is so out of place, or, like if management isn’t present, nothing else is happening. You know, no matter how much we work on refining the stuff

30:00

stuff at the top, that you’re you’re missing the foundation, you know? So how do we do that whenever we see their very real needs, but we have these goals that we’re working on. And we and we want to be respectful to teacher as well. But we also are like, Oh, we can try to do this all day, but they literally do not hear what you’re saying, you know, what do you do? The situation’s? Yeah.

30:21

Well, so sometimes I do that weaving and pace. And then other times I talked to them about, do you think maybe we want to switch from cognitive engagement to behavioral engagement, because I see that we have some students who are not as attentive as we would like them to be during class. And that’s okay, too, if you switch goals. Now, again, stay in control that don’t let a teacher switch goals every time you’re in there. But if you see that something else will really help them. I think we do a disservice with by us not being honest with the teacher in that because it would be really hard for that teacher that you’re working with there to get to higher levels of cognitive engagement, if the behavioral engagement is really off. And so the more honest that we can be, and caring not mean, but caring, and truthful, and sincere, and helping that teacher, it’s okay to come back and say, maybe let’s think about this goal first, and

31:32

then go from there. I think they wouldn’t appreciate that. Many times they do sometimes, you know, sometimes they don’t, but many times they do, because they’re like this thing is not working. Why is it not working, because they’re trying to work on the goal that’s way up here. And so if you say, you know, well, I’m noticing we’re working really hard on this one area, and you’re integrating these strategies. But I’m seeing that something is getting in the way of the kids actually engaging at that level. I’m noticing, you know, whatever you’re seeing, I’m noticing that whenever you’re giving directions that kids are not really stopping to listen, whenever you’re, you know, reading together, you have children doing such and such or whatever. So those things can be getting in the way of them doing the thing we’re trying to work really hard on. So maybe we put that on hiatus, focus on this stuff that’s getting in the way, and then we can come back to it. If there is a way to say it that is not attacking, like you said that is respectful of the teacher in the classroom and the students, but does express the reality that they are not going to learn if they cannot listen, because I know that that’s an issue that many schools are facing right now.

32:39

Right. And in my book coaching redefined, I have what I call nine real values for coaches and things that they should

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those values that they should have that help them to coach and one of them is honesty. And honestly, it is one of the ones that I coach one the most with administrators and with instructional coaches. And it’s not that we’re, we’re dishonest with people, but we hold truths back that sometimes can help teachers, because we fear what the teacher will say to us, and and I in my early years of being shy and the introvert that I am really struggled with that as well. I was like, Why can’t you see that? Yes. And it just was like

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some of them hit me in the head said Sherry, it’s because you’re not sharing that with them. You know this that they don’t know the essence. So I had to get to the point of saying I cannot be frustrated with this teacher. The school this later, if I’m not willing to have those hard conversations with them. And not hard have mean that hard for me to say, no Chrissy this, you have a wonderful goal here. But what what I’ll also see is, many times you’re going to struggle to reach that goal unless we get this other piece worked out. And so maybe we take a step over this direction work on this first and then here. How would you feel about that? Yeah, I totally agree. And I

34:16

yeah, that’s I agree that that I struggled with that as well. And there were classrooms that I was like this is I feel awful in here, those were classrooms that just stressed me out to be in those rooms, and I did not know how to address it because management specifically felt like such an

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like a personal thing for teachers. And so I felt like how do I even broach the subject and now you know, now I obviously have more experience doing that and having conversations that

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people are, you know, saying things in such a way that express the truth while being kind but also being firm. It’s kind of a very, very fine line to walk. But it’s, it is so important because

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They They don’t always know. And they think if you’re present, and you’re seeing it, they think you’re going to tell them

35:09

later. And many times they’re like, Well, you wouldn’t you didn’t say anything about it. So that must be fine. So they don’t and they don’t know how often do teachers get to see other teachers teach? They have no vision sometimes for what’s going on in other classrooms, because we put him in the classroom and close the door with 20. Kids. And we’re like, good luck. We’ll see you later. You know, see you in June. And it’s really unfair to everybody, because we’re asking them to do something that they haven’t seen since they were on the other side of the job. And they were the kids sometimes. So it’s, yeah, if we can’t give them that perspective, we’re not doing them any favors. We’re just avoiding the hard conversations because it makes us uncomfortable. And we’re also afraid of making them uncomfortable.

35:50

Right? Right. And I always try to encourage coaches to pay attention to those things that you’re talking about. You feel uncomfortable in there. Well, if you’re feeling uncomfortable, and they’re the students are probably feeling uncomfortable in there, or if it’s stressing you out, then it’s probably stressing a student out. Or if you’re having a hard time paying attention to what the teacher is covering, you know, chances are the students are as well, so, so pay attention to those feelings that you’re having, because they’re incredibly important to your coaching as far as just how you’re emotionally attaching to what’s happening in that classroom. That’s a good point. It’s something good to consider. Thank you so much for all of your input on coaching, using goals in our coaching cycles. I do get to ask you one more question. That is my favorite. And it is what is your favorite thing right now? And it’s just a fun question. It can be anything you like, podcasts, book, product, anything, you know, even an activity that you’re loving. So what is your favorite thing right now?

36:51

Um, I have lots of favorites. I’m always reading so, but I think Jared COVID I discovered I picked back a paintbrush. I had not done that for probably since college. And so I have to say that’s my new favorite. If people follow me on Facebook, they have to look at all my paintings.

37:12

I don’t I don’t share them all. But I have enjoyed painting it is my stress reliever. So I’ll say painting today. I love that. What a wonderful hobby. That’s great.

37:23

So how can people find you online to learn more? I know that you have a great presence in different mediums. So what can people do if they want to follow you?

37:33

Well, my website is reflecttolearn.com you can sign up for newsletter theory and found that coaching redefined toolbox and lots of coaching resources. We’ve spent a lot of time on engagement. There’s a blog on engagement that has been quite popular there as well. So people can look at that. And I am also on Facebook. A probably that’s probably where

37:55

I’m most active in Twitter and Instagram that you can find me in all those spots. But

38:02

definitely Facebook is probably my go to spot right now. All right, sounds good. Well, thank you so much for being here. Sherry.

38:11

Thank you, Chrissy. I’ve enjoyed it.

38:17

Hey, coach. So that was such good information from Sherry, I’m so glad that she shared that with us because I feel like you know, figuring out how to how to find goals and how to say the hard things is such a challenge for coaches. So I hope you walk away with some really valuable tools for your toolbox today. Next episode is episode 167. And we’re going to talk more about coaching cycles, how we can move from more shallow introductory coaching into deeper coaching. So it’s a question that many of you have asked, and I’m excited to share that with you. In the meantime, if you want to grab a download that will help you get teachers interested and excited about coaching cycles. You can grab that a button with MS b.com slash episode 166 Scroll down, put your email address in there and you’ll grab tools and ideas for helping teachers be excited about coaching cycles because I know it can be hard to get people on board. These are some great tools that are going to help you do it. Until next week until episode 167 Happy coaching

39:22

Thank you for listening to buzzing with Miss B the coaching podcast. What more coaching ideas. Check me out at buzzing with Ms. b.com and on Instagram at buzzing with Miss B. If you love the show, share it with a coach who would love it too. Or leave me a review on iTunes. It’s free and it helps others find this show. Happy coaching