Growth Mindset in Coaching with Becca Silver, Ep. 132 Instructional Coaching with Ms. B

Growth Mindset in Coaching with Becca Silver, Ep. 132 Instructional Coaching with Ms. B

Chrissy Beltran [00:00:00]:

Coach, this is season four of this podcast, and I’m so excited to be hosting an awesome giveaway for you. You can win a $50 Amazon gift card and your choice of a YETI tumbler or a YETI mug. And all you have to do is screenshot this episode and share it in your Instagram stories. Tag me at buzzing with miss b, and you’ll be entered to win. I’ll choose a winner by the week of February 20, so make sure you’ve shared your episode by then. This is going to help so many people find this podcast and help me continue to do the work that I’m doing today. So I really appreciate your participation, and good luck. I’m going to make an assumption, and you tell me if I’m wrong. You feel like there aren’t enough hours in the day. I know it’s true. There are always too many things to do and too little time. If you’re like me, your boss will walk down the hallway and shout, go home, Beltran. That’s why I’m telling everyone about the forty hour work week with Angela Watson. Angela was a guest on this very podcast back in season one, and she shared her ideas for managing your time, teaching, and stuff to help you make the most of your time at work while making time for home too. But that was just the beginning. In her membership, the forty hour work week, Angela helps you focus on what matters to have a purposeful and productive work day and then go home. Angela helps teachers find, on average, eleven hours a week that they can take back for themselves while still being a great teacher. The best part is that Angela has a new membership especially for coaches. She partnered with my friend and coffee buddy, Nicole Turner of Simply Coaching, to create the forty hour work week for coaches. Check it out at buzzingwithmissb.com/40hourweek and get your time back. You’re listening to Buzzing with Miss b, the coaching podcast, where we believe that every teacher deserves a coach, and every coach does too. I’m Krissy Beltran, an instructional coach, resource creator, and coffee enthusiast, and I’m your host. Stay tuned for practical tips and honest coaching talk that will help you coach with confidence. Hey, coach. So for the next three months, this podcast is going to be all about the human side of coaching. We’re talking about how we interact with others, how we think and talk to ourselves, and how we communicate. A big component of this is mindset, specifically a growth don’t have a gross mindset. Growth mindset is a huge buzzword, and it has been for quite a while. We work towards getting our kids to approach their lives with a growth mindset, and we try to help parents do the same. But how does this apply to school leaders like coaches? I actually have a guest today who’s going to help me chat

Chrissy Beltran [00:02:47]:

about this idea. But before we dig in, I wanna share a free webinar with you, Dare to Coach. You can grab it at buzzingwithmissb.com/darewithacapitald. This webinar is going to walk you through strategies like explicit how to’s that will help you get into classrooms where the door has been closed to you before and where you feel like you are not sure if you should be there. Like, you were uncomfortable. You are nervous asking teachers to do things. You feel like you’re asking teachers to add something to their plates. This webinar is going to teach you how to change that mindset and also to change the fact that you’re not going to add something to their plates. You’re just going to help them do things they already need to do better. So, I want you to grab that webinar. It’s free, and it’s going to support you in doing so much important coaching work. That’s buzzingwithmissb dot com slash dare. So, let’s welcome Becca Silver to the podcast. Hello. Hey, Becca. You were a guest on this podcast back in season three on episode one fifteen when we talked about transformational coaching, and I just had such a good time during our conversation that I wanted to come back to you and look at growth mindset and how we can use this idea to grow as coaches. So I’m so thankful that you’re here today.

Becca Silver [00:04:00]:

I am excited to be here too, and I just wanna let you know I’m a mindset nut. I love talking about mindsets. I could do it all day. And so I’m excited for your listeners to hear about this too.

Chrissy Beltran [00:04:13]:

Alright, listeners. We have a six hour episode planned for you today. So buckle up, buttercup. No. Not really. We’re not gonna do six hours. We’re gonna still keep it short, but I know that Becca is a font of information on this topic. So, if you want more at the end of this episode, make sure that you seek her out, and, and I’m sure that you’ll get, all the information that you want about growth mindset. And more. And more and then some. So, Becca, you have introduced yourself on this podcast before, but if you’d kind of reintroduce yourself a little bit, talk about who you are, how you ended up doing the work that you’re doing, and what kind of work you’re focusing on, I would love that.

Becca Silver [00:04:49]:

Yes. Well, my name is Becca Silver again. I am the CEO and founder of The Whole Educator, and what we do is we focus on, helping instructional coaches impact teachers’ mindsets and motivations, mindsets and motivations, to really create impact. And so one thing that we’ve been focusing on lately is resistance to change. And just a little bit about my history, I was a teacher for ten years, and then I became an instructional coach. And at the same time, I was becoming a life coach, and I started to see some crossover skills, and that really increased my effectiveness. And so I started to create a curriculum that impacted instructional coaches knowing what I knew about mindsets and motivations. So here we are today.

Chrissy Beltran [00:05:39]:

That’s perfect. You’re a perfect fit for our topic because growth mindset has been this huge push, you know, that that we hear it everywhere. We hear it, in terms of kids and parents and but sometimes we don’t have a solid definition of what growth mindset actually is. So can you define what growth mindset and what fixed mindset are?

Becca Silver [00:05:58]:

Mhmm. The first thing I wanna do is say what my what growth mindset is not, because more often than not, when I’m speaking to people about growth mindset, they actually have learned it incorrectly. Mhmm. And I think sometimes we are so interested in growth mindset, we almost we think it’s simpler than it is. So growth mindset is not just working hard. It’s not positive self talk. You know, it’s not, those are the two major ones that I that I think of. It it’s not fancy bulletin boards. So often in schools, I was just in a school today, that had a beautiful growth mindset board that had the fancy little font. They probably purchased purchased it on TpT and put up the, like, you know, it was like an acronym for mindset, m I n d s e t, all spelled little little, like, ways you should think, and it’s not it’s not pretty posters. It’s an actual way of thinking. And one thing I wanna also frame this conversation around is everyone operates under growth mindsets, fixed mindsets, and mixed mindsets. It is not black and white. And so when I’m talking about it, I’m gonna say we operate under those mindsets. And those of you listening, I wanna really challenge you not to ask yourselves if you operate under a fixed mindset, but when do I operate under a fixed mindset? So having that framing, I’ll go into what they actually are. So, basically, a growth mindset is when people believe that their abilities are developed through effort, through trying different strategies, through dedication. Right? I, like, just kept trying, and I didn’t give up. And so and it’s it’s the basic idea that we can grow our skills and abilities. We’re not stuck and fixed in one way.

Chrissy Beltran [00:08:06]:

Yes. I and that’s something that I talk about with my daughter a lot. I’m trying to praise this because I know that as a child, lots of things were easy for me in school. Mhmm. And when things get harder, you’re like, oh, I’m bad at this. And that is an issue, you know, whenever we’re like, oh, we’re told, oh, you’re so smart. You’re such a good reader. You’re such a whatever. But then you get to multiplication, and your brain doesn’t work that way, and you’re like, oh, now what? That I mean, I’m just just an example.

Becca Silver [00:08:33]:

Yeah. Yeah.

Chrissy Beltran [00:08:34]:

Multiplication facts was like my, you know, like the end of my existence as a straight a student in school.

Becca Silver [00:08:41]:

Yeah. Yeah.

Chrissy Beltran [00:08:42]:

That was where I hit hit, like, a wall, and it was because I didn’t that didn’t work for me. I had to do it different ways. Memorizing never worked for me when I was a kid. But so I work on that with my daughter. You know, we talk about, yeah. It was hard, but we tried again. You asked for help, and now you can do it. Look.

Becca Silver [00:08:58]:

You Mhmm.

Chrissy Beltran [00:08:58]:

You and you you your teacher said you needed to work on your coloring because you didn’t enjoy coloring, so you’re just scribbling on things and you practice. And now look at what you can do. And so we we talk about that a lot. And I feel like what we see a lot of like, you talk about this misunderstanding is, like and I know I I remember doing an activity with parents where they were sorting what is, like, a growth mindset versus a fixed mindset in a parent, community thing that I did as a coach at a campus. And I remember they were saying they one of the little cards said saying you’re so smart.

Becca Silver [00:09:29]:

Mhmm. And they

Chrissy Beltran [00:09:29]:

were putting that under growth mindset because they were like, oh, it’s a good thing. It’s a compliment. It’s a praise.

Becca Silver [00:09:34]:

Mhmm.

Chrissy Beltran [00:09:34]:

And we had to talk about how, well, that’s not that doesn’t really represent growth mindset because that you’re saying that you can do these things because you’re smart. It’s like a characteristic that you have. Right?

Becca Silver [00:09:43]:

Yep. Yep.

Chrissy Beltran [00:09:44]:

Can you talk a little about that? Like, what is you know, about praise, what it looks like in growth mindset? Can you praise effectively? What does that

Becca Silver [00:09:51]:

look like? Absolutely. And a very I’m gonna be a little oversimplified right now, and I’ll give you some nuance. But, basically, when we are praising someone else, we wanna praise the verb and not the noun. We wanna praise what someone is doing and not the person themselves. So anytime we say you are brilliant, you are blank, or he is blank, we’re actually speaking about them or to them in a fixed way. Okay? That’s very oversimplified, but I just a big broad stroke there. I like this is a funny story. One of the my my brother, and sister-in-law raised their children with the growth mindset, and they would as the little babies were, who were potty training, they would say, that’s great pooping. They’re weird. You’re complementing the verb. You know what? You know? You find yourself

Chrissy Beltran [00:10:44]:

saying some weird stuff when you have small children. I’ll tell you that. I have said things that I mean, I guess even as a teacher, you say some weird things, but it’s it’s a whole other level When you’re praising the pooping that I mean, you gotta do what you gotta do to make pooping happen in the potty. Yes. I mean, I have sung songs about poop. I have done little poop dances. You do. Yeah.

Becca Silver [00:11:04]:

Yep. Yep. Instead of you are so good at pooping. You’re such a great pooper. Yes. Yes. It’s You’re a fantastic pooper.

Chrissy Beltran [00:11:13]:

No. No. That was great pooping. You just did some amazing pooping just now.

Becca Silver [00:11:17]:

Yes.

Chrissy Beltran [00:11:18]:

And it’s because you kept trying. You didn’t give up.

Becca Silver [00:11:24]:

Yes. Exactly. I wonder how many times you could bring up poop now. This is Oh my gosh.

Chrissy Beltran [00:11:29]:

Strange story. My sister-in-law I have three brothers. And my sister-in-law, whenever she came into our family, you know, fifteen, twenty years ago, maybe longer, she was like, why does every conversation in this family end up being about poop? I don’t understand how a family can talk about poop so much. And we were, like, grown adults. I don’t know how it happened, but it yeah. It’s just one of those things. You can make it work anywhere.

Becca Silver [00:11:52]:

You can. You can. I love it. Now I wanna you know, thinking about praise, right, and and shifting mindset, one thing I also want to kind of frame around growth and fixed mindsets is what a actual mindset is. A mindset is an established set of attitudes held by someone, and I wanna really emphasize the word established. This is, this is a very patterned way that we think often subconsciously. Mhmm. We are changing the way we and others think. This isn’t like I’m teaching you how to add two plus two. This is a patterned way of thinking. Right? Mindsets are different than skills. Mhmm. And so these really this this is a messy process for ourselves and other people. This isn’t like a quick fix to help people just be more successful. It could be messy, and it could be tough.

Chrissy Beltran [00:12:52]:

Yes. I’m so glad that you talk about that. In in this episode that I did recently on imposter syndrome in instructional coaching, which is episode one thirty two or one thirty one, it was the first one in this season. I talked a little bit about how hard it is to change your self talk because we’ve had these patterns established since we were children often. Mhmm. And they often, they came from these negative voices that we heard outside of ourselves, and we internalize that as our own self talk.

Becca Silver [00:13:14]:

And now here we are talking to ourselves in a really horrible way every day.

Chrissy Beltran [00:13:14]:

All of us do it. It’s just talking to ourselves in a really horrible way every day. All of us do it. It’s just I mean, most of us, unless you grew up in, like, this amazing Partridge family or something. But, you know, most of the time, people have internalized these negative voices, and and that’s what we’re trying to change when we’re trying to change mindset is is the way that you see the world, the way that you interact, what you believe is true. That’s that’s rough. That’s

Becca Silver [00:13:38]:

It is. It is. And, you know, something that, with imposter syndrome and definitely mindsets, something that gets in the way of operating under growth mindset is perfectionism.

Chrissy Beltran [00:13:50]:

Mhmm.

Becca Silver [00:13:51]:

And perfectionism often is a cover up for imposter syndrome. And perfectionism is all and all is also a symptom of operating under a fixed mindset. Interesting. It’s a shield. We are we are shielding ourself from the pain of judgment, embarrassment, and shame.

Chrissy Beltran [00:14:11]:

And failure. Yeah. We can’t

Becca Silver [00:14:12]:

stay healthy. Yeah. This is not healthy striving. Mhmm. Healthy striving is, like, really coming from a healthy place, not covering up, that someone’s gonna catch me, you know, screwing up. It’s this is like, I’m coming from a healthy place, and I’m working hard. Us, like, the administrators and instructional coaches, you do not want perfectionist perfectionistic teachers. It gets in the way of growth mindset. Mhmm.

Chrissy Beltran [00:14:38]:

That makes sense. Because once every whenever something doesn’t go wrong go right, it’s like this big horrible thing. They can’t

Becca Silver [00:14:44]:

just go, oh, it’s

Chrissy Beltran [00:14:45]:

a learning opportunity and move on. Mhmm. And and then they’re likely to avoid like, I know as a child, I would avoid things that I was not good at. If I was not already good at it, I was not gonna try it. Mhmm. And what is that, there’s that cute little video or quote that they say now that that’s going around now or has been for months that I really liked. It said something about trying something new or something about try when like, starting doing something badly is the first step to being really good at something. Yeah. Something like that.

Becca Silver [00:15:13]:

Yeah. Yeah. And I I like those. And I think those, like, little phrases that we hear, we’re like, you know, part that. Right. I think that’s cute. Get that on a mug. I think the thing that’s not said is it what it feels and looks like. Like, the process to really embrace our mistakes and failures can be hard. And I consider myself a a recovering perfectionist. Like, I by I am on my journey to practicing not being a perfectionist, and it’s a journey. And and it’s you know, that that process of really embracing mistakes as learning opportunities is not just a quick, like, well, I got the mug. I must be good now. It’s like, no. This is a a constant process of, like, forgiving myself, you know, and and listening to the thoughts of my myself. Sorry. It’s been a long day. Let’s try that again. Listening to the thoughts in my head about what I’m saying to myself. Right? You did a terrible job. They’re gonna see that you’re doing a terrible job. Right? All of those things go through my head. And it’s not that I’m absent of those thoughts. I can hear them, stop them, and say, let me say something different to myself. Like, oh, you’re on the journey of growing, and you just learned something really valuable today.

Chrissy Beltran [00:16:31]:

Mhmm. Absolutely. Oh, it makes me so happy because you’re just, like, you’re corroborating what I said in this episode about imposter syndrome, about changing your self talk. You’re gonna always have those automatic negative thoughts, but you can interrupt them and change them after the fact. But you can’t you know, they’re not gonna go away from the start because you’ve had them for probably decades.

Becca Silver [00:16:48]:

Yes.

Chrissy Beltran [00:16:49]:

Yeah. So we have ideally, we want growth mindset at all levels of a campus. We wanna see it in our students, in our parents, in our teachers, in support staff, in admin, but that isn’t always the case. So in in your experience working with schools, where do we see the breakdown happen most often?

Becca Silver [00:17:08]:

It always starts with the adults. People, it always starts with the adults. So, you know, I cannot point to one thing. I would say, generally, the adults, and what I’ll do is kind of share at each level what fixed mindsets could look like. Okay. Administrators I’ve worked with administrators that operate under fixed mindsets for their teachers. Right? And so what it could sound like is the administrator say, you know, that teacher is just waiting for retirement. Fixed mindset. And that same administrator might be operating under a growth mindset for their students, population of people that we’re supporting here.

Chrissy Beltran [00:18:05]:

Mhmm.

Becca Silver [00:18:07]:

I see instructional coaches also can operate under a fixed mindset with their teachers as well. Teachers that they have experienced resistance to change, especially if they’ve run out of their tools and they’re like, I tried everything that I know to do, the result could mean a fixed mindset. Teachers can operate under a fixed mindset with their administrators. They’re, you know, they’re just that way. They’ll never let me blah blah blah. Right? As well as operate under a fixed mindset for their students. And then parents, can operate under a fixed mindset or a growth mindset. Right? But my kid is my kid is well behaved. I don’t know what you’re talking about. Right? And so, you know, and we could have it in that kind of, you know, they are good or they are bad. I’m making very general statements. Both are fixed mindsets. Right? Saying, like, look. You are so smart. So, you know, we can see a lot of times when I’m in classrooms, I I I hear that fixed mindset language giving positive feedback.

Chrissy Beltran [00:19:22]:

Mhmm.

Becca Silver [00:19:23]:

Telling kids, you are good at that. You are blank. And that sends a message, right, that that kid embodies that. And so you start to see meltdowns in classrooms. And I know teachers across the country are experiencing kids with less resilience, right? The pandemic really impacted kids’ willingness to have grit to, like, keep working at something. And, you know, it, it, the, the response a lot of times

Chrissy Beltran [00:19:55]:

is, no. But you can do it.

Becca Silver [00:19:56]:

Don’t worry. It’s easy. You you know? And it’s kind of being a cheerleader, which is not growing a growth mindset at all.

Chrissy Beltran [00:20:05]:

Yeah. That’s a good point. Hearing that language, it’s permeated our culture, I think, that praise, positive praise, but then what we’re saying we’re saying the opposite is also true. So if we’re saying, you know, oh, you’re so good at this because they did well at something, Then whenever they don’t do well at something, we’re saying, oh, you’re bad at that. Even if we don’t say it, that’s the message that they’re internalizing.

Becca Silver [00:20:26]:

Mhmm. Exactly. Yep. And there’s one more thing I wanna share about admin, that how a fixed mindset could look with admin. I’ve worked with some school leaders, I’ve worked with some school leaders that can be perfectionistic and have they never say it straight out, but have, an underlying unsaid message, have, an underlying unsaid message that when they walk into classrooms, that they want the classrooms to be perfect. Now they don’t say that. They’ll never say that. But that there’s just the teachers know don’t screw up around this administrator, or else you’ll get your head bit off, or you’ll get a negative review, and you can never come back from that. That is supporting a fixed mindset culture. So that’s why I say from the top down, you cannot you cannot expect teachers to operate under a fixed mind sorry. You cannot expect teachers to operate under a growth mindset if they don’t have psychological safety. And I’m entering a whole new concept here, but psychological safety starts from the top. And the the school leaders must operate under a growth mindset and communicate that to their teachers that they see their teachers and support their teachers in operating under a growth mindset. That means supporting mistakes, helping teachers reflect on their mistakes, expecting messiness in the process, supporting the process as a as a process.

Chrissy Beltran [00:22:00]:

So I love that idea. It’s it’s really we’re changing the way that we see things from the top down in order to make change happen from the top down. And, of course, top down change is super hard, and it takes forever. But but yeah. But it, like, it takes time. You know? Yeah. It’s it’s it’s, it’s a lot different than a teacher organically saying, oh, I’m going to change the way that I do things. You know? Mhmm. So whenever we’re trying to make that happen from the top, sometimes the change is a lot slower than than what we feel like we we wanna see. But but, yeah, that’s the only way to make it happen is by changing the school culture, by changing the leadership, the way the leadership actually acts in, in the way that they interact with teachers. Is there anything else that coaches can do to build growth mindset in their teachers? Because that’s, like, a huge factor of it, what you just said. It’s like Yes. Environment and culture.

Becca Silver [00:22:50]:

Yeah. So I’m I just wanna reiterate, the teachers need to feel a sense of psychological safety, number one, with their with their coaches. Psychological safety is akin to trust. Trust is under the psych safety umbrella. It is not complete completely it, and I highly recommend, like, look it up. I’m not gonna spend a lot of time talking about it. And aim Amy Edmonson is the main researcher that really coined that term. So one, your teachers have to trust you to build a growth mindset. Remember, we are talking this is not your ticket to success with teachers. Growth mindset can look very messy. Alright? So that’s one thing I also wanna say. I think sometimes we get really caught up and excited about growth mindset because we think this is the way I can make my teachers do what I tell them to do now. If they just had a growth mindset, it’s like, that’s that’s actually not, at all. So, you know, many times people operating under growth mindset can go rogue and do their own thing. Right? They learn nothing

Chrissy Beltran [00:23:48]:

to do.

Becca Silver [00:23:48]:

They have something to do. So one, your teachers have to trust you, period. And and you have to have a relationship with them, period. No one’s gonna change the way they think if you don’t have those two things. And then there’s different elements of growth mindset. When I run my big growth mindset workshop, you can learn about all of them, but a few of them are one thing, that I really want everyone to know is the main goal of each mindset. Someone operating under a fixed mindset, their main goal is to look smart and look good. They’re protecting an image. Why are they protecting that image? Because their, mindset around their own skills is that they are fixed. I am good at math. And so if something happens, an administrator comes in and gives them negative feedback on their math lesson, right, or may maybe their their their fixed mindset is, I am a good math teacher. Right? So they get negative. They’re going to be defensive. Why? Because they need to protect that image that I that they are good at it. Does that make sense?

Chrissy Beltran [00:25:03]:

Mhmm.

Becca Silver [00:25:03]:

It’s usually unexpected. Like, wait. I thought, you know Yeah. It makes sense because

Chrissy Beltran [00:25:07]:

I’ve seen that in teachers, and I’ve identified it not I didn’t I didn’t connect it to fixed mindset. I’ve identified, oh, they have to see themselves in this way, and they can’t accept anything that would that would clash with that idea because they know what they’re do they’re an experienced teacher. I’ve been teaching here for twenty years. I know how these students work best. I know how to teach writing, all those things people say that are very flat, you know, like absolutes. And I never connected it to a fixed mindset in their identity. I didn’t think about it that way, but that’s an interesting

Becca Silver [00:25:35]:

Mhmm. It is totally and I love that you said identity. Right? We are asking people to shift not only the way they think, but a lot of times, when you shift beliefs, right, it’s attached to your identity. Mhmm. These are big shifts we’re asking people to do. Again, we’re not learning a skill. This is not a skill. This is a way of thinking in our identity. Yeah. So the goal, the main goal of someone operating under growth mindset is to learn and grow. That’s the main goal. Right? So there’s they they an administrator comes in, gives them critical feedback. They’re not defensive. They’re accepting of the feedback. Why? Because they’re like, oh, thanks. That that helps me grow. It’s a different way of thinking about it. They don’t have to protect their image. They they not either think I am a good math teacher nor do they think I’m a bad math teacher. Right? And that’s just another misconception I think people have around growth mindset. They somehow think it’s, like, positive thinking. It is absolutely not positive thinking. As a matter of fact, and I there’s a whole grouping of positive thinking called toxic positivity. Like, many times when I hear someone, quote, unquote, be positive, many times, it’s fixed mindset speak. So, I wanted, yeah, I wanted to really highlight those main goals, and and why people like, why different teachers respond differently to feedback. Another piece is the success of others, and I think this is so interesting. People operating under a fixed mindset view the success of others as threatening. They’re threatened by it. They’re like, and so you’ll see behaviors on grade level teams many times of teachers maybe gossiping about each other or making diminishing comments about each other, kind of taking each other down, in a sense. And why would that happen? A lot of times, it’s that fixed mindset. I need to protect my image of being a good teacher, being smart. And they interpret someone else’s success as challenging that in themselves. It’s a very comparative way of looking at it. Versus growth mindset, someone operating under growth mindset, the success of others, they’re like, that’s awesome. I wanna go into their classroom. I wanna learn from them. Right? There’s nothing to protect. They’re excited about someone that’s better at something than them.

Chrissy Beltran [00:28:02]:

Another reason that is so important to support this kind of thinking on your campus because you can’t nobody’s getting to be better in a bubble. I mean, you know, we have to learn from each other. We want collegiality and and, you know, camaraderie and teachers learning from each other and collaborating and PLCs and visiting each other’s classrooms. We want all of those things.

Becca Silver [00:28:23]:

Exactly. And so giving and receiving feedback graciously is a way to grow growth mindset culture. And, one one thing that I am doing and I’m partnering with another firm is we are leading a peer coaching academy in Oklahoma. And, what’s really cool about it is we are training regular teachers to coach each other. And what what we’re seeing is this growth mindset culture. It’s it’s people volunteering to learn how to help make each other better. And so there’s a lot of growth mindset elements that get impacted by this one little behavior, opening our doors, deprivatizing our classrooms, and giving and receiving feedback.

Chrissy Beltran [00:29:10]:

That’s so important. That’s something that I’ve actually shared with coaches before whenever they say, oh, my teachers don’t wanna try this. They’re scared. They don’t wanna do this. I would say, well, you have to be the little penguin on the edge of the cliff that all the other little penguins push in to see if there’s a shark.

Becca Silver [00:29:26]:

They have to go first. That is such a great image. Oh my gosh. I love that. Except, you know, the the they they push them off, and and they they learn to swim eventually. Right? And Hopefully Yeah.

Chrissy Beltran [00:29:40]:

Provided there’s no shark, they’re hopefully just fine. They’re natural born swimmers. Right? So hopefully and that’s what you’re showing. There’s no shark. No one’s coming to get you. Everything is okay. It’s good to learn and try new things even if it feels uncomfortable and scary. And that’s what we may have to model first. We might have to be the one to say, I’ll do video coaching first. I will record myself teaching this lesson. It’s uncomfortable. I’m gonna see all the crummy things that I do that I didn’t even wanna know, and we can watch it together. I’m going to make myself vulnerable

Becca Silver [00:30:12]:

Yes.

Chrissy Beltran [00:30:12]:

In order to encourage you to do the same. You you might have to be the one to make the leap because it’s scary. Mhmm. It’s and for years, teachers did close their doors. Yes. They did do their own thing. They pulled out their units from 1985 whenever I was in kindergarten, and they were like, here, this is what I’m gonna do. It happened for a long time. And and then all of a sudden, people publish a PLC book, and everything went wild. I’m sure that’s the only factor, but, you know, people realize the value in learning from each other and opening those doors, and there are still teachers who have been trained that it’s best to keep your door closed.

Becca Silver [00:30:49]:

Yep. Exactly. It’s

Chrissy Beltran [00:30:51]:

scary. It’s scary. I mean, it’s sincerely scary. It’s Yes. Everything. It is a sincere threat. They feel a threat. They’re not making it up.

Becca Silver [00:30:58]:

Yes. And I you know, I just wanna all you said some beautiful words, and I wanna say this is part of operating under a growth mindset and growing a growth mindset, which is like, it can be scary. It can be vulnerable. It can be risky. Like, growth mindset is not a positive happy place sometimes. Many times, it’s not. And so I just wanna you know, I so often see these bulletin boards as, like, rainbows on them. I’m like, where’s the poop where’s the poop emoji? Like, where Poop. No one on the board. Yeah. It’s you know, and I just really wanna emphasize, it’s just not this simple strategy. Now I also wanna share the way I teach instructional coaches and school leaders, to grow growth mindsets in their teachers. There’s three elements. There is the brain science that teachers need to know. They need to actually understand malleable intelligence. That when we have productive struggle, when we try different things that are hard, when we make mistakes and reflect and learn from it, our little neurons make better connections. Right? This is actually the way our brain works. It’s not like they, like, collapse and die because we’ve made a mistake. That’s not how it works. So the brain science, number one. The second thing is the psychology. And so that’s, like, that’s where we get the power of yet, and that’s the that’s that’s where we get the language. Right? And we’ve done a lot of talking about language, internal language, what we say to ourselves and what we say to other people. I really wanna caution people that just saying yet at the end of sentences does not grow a growth mindset. That’s a nice start and awareness, but it is not the thing that actually has people totally shift the way they think. And then the last element is experiencing it. People have to experience the success on the other side of it. Right? So if you have a teacher that has their heels pretty dug in around operating under fixed mindset, you probably wanna go side by side with them to bring them through the process of experiencing the success on the other side, which might take multiple times. There might be tears involved. I had a teacher crying last week when I was coaching them. Tears are not a bad thing. Right? Many times, it’s people processing.

Chrissy Beltran [00:33:20]:

Mhmm.

Becca Silver [00:33:20]:

Alright? So we wanna be careful also when people are processing what’s happening, and they’re shifting what they’re thinking that we’re not glazing over it with a it’ll be okay. It’s okay. You know? But you are good. Right? We tend to do pretty thick say pretty fixed mindset things to people to make them feel better. It’s uncomfortable to watch someone cry. Right? And it’s like, sometimes that’s the thing we need to do to process through and grow. Mhmm. I

Chrissy Beltran [00:33:44]:

love that. So, I mean, that and that is a challenge is to coaches. I wanna ask about how coaches can shift their own mindsets from fixed to growth mindsets and how this shift would be reflected in the way that they interact with their teachers.

Becca Silver [00:34:00]:

Mhmm. Okay. Great. This is a great question. Now I’m gonna give as much of an answer as I can, and I’m just gonna emphasize, mindsets can be hard to shift in ourselves because sometimes we don’t see them, and so sometimes coaches need a coach. And if you were going to kind of start your own self coaching, one mindset I like to have people distinguish their own thoughts through is asking yourself, am I having a judging mindset or a learner’s mindset? Alright? And that can help us start to decide, how am I looking at situation? Is it judging mindset or a learner’s mindset? Now judging doesn’t necessarily mean it’s bad judgment. It could mean it’s still it could be, like, a positive judgment, more like an interpretation or a perception. Alright? A learner’s mindset gives us an opportunity to come from curiosity, and I think curiosity is one of those I don’t think we talk about it enough. Curiosity coming from curiosity, it sorry. I’m just, like, I’m just, like, thinking about it helps team cohesion. It helps us understand people that are different from us. It just helps so many things. And so when we come from curiosity, we can we want to learn. Right? Growth mindset coming from growth in growth and learning. We wanna learn why this is happening and not make a judgment about why this is happening. Right? And that’s and that goes into also us assuming why people do things. Right? We can’t see people’s intentions. We can see their behaviors. We can only guess their intentions. And so coming from that learner’s mindset in terms of asking questions, you know, finding out why, what, what is that person’s motivation and mindset behind doing something? I think that’s a great place to start in terms of growing their own growth mindset.

Chrissy Beltran [00:36:13]:

That’s so important. The, curiosity, like you said, is so essential because if we’re having coming from this learner’s mindset, then we want to understand why. We wanna understand where they’re coming from, and we don’t assume that we already know. With a judgmental mindset, we assume that we already know. And we peg people into, like, a box, and we say, oh, this teacher is this and this teacher teacher is that. And then we cannot help them at

Becca Silver [00:36:35]:

all because we’ve

Chrissy Beltran [00:36:35]:

we’ve decided already what they are, and they can feel

Becca Silver [00:36:37]:

it. Mhmm.

Chrissy Beltran [00:36:38]:

They often can feel that we’ve decided that.

Becca Silver [00:36:40]:

Mhmm.

Chrissy Beltran [00:36:41]:

That was I gave a session for I think it was think it was a summit last year. I’ve given so many of them, but I I think it was the Simply Coaching Summit about getting curious and using questions to forward your dialogue with teachers instead of shutting it down with statements or with answers or with solutions because we do we tend to get stuck in that. Let me let me fix this. I’ll fix it really quick, and you can’t fix it. There’s no fixing. You have to, you know, dig in with a teacher.

Becca Silver [00:37:06]:

Yeah. And I wanna say this. We can come from curiosity curiosity by asking questions. Like, curiosity can be a thing that we do. Mhmm. But, also, curiosity needs to be a way of being. It needs to be it needs to be authentic. We need to authentically be curious. This isn’t like using curiosity as a strategy. Like, you need to dig deep in your soul and find humanity. Like, I something I say like, sometimes I work with teachers, and it’s tough working with them. And I come up against my own resistance. And I have to, like, really dig deep and be like, okay, Becca. They’re a human being just like you. They have one one thing that I say to myself to really level the field is they have some version of I’m not a good enough, just like you. We all have a version of I’m not good enough. We all do. And so it helps bring the humanity out in that other person so I can be like, okay, Let me come from curiosity. Let me come from compassion authentically and ask my questions that way.

Chrissy Beltran [00:38:14]:

Mhmm. That’s really important. I love that. So what if a coach hears their administration consistently approaching their work with with teachers and students with a fixed mindset? What can the coach do?

Becca Silver [00:38:26]:

Oh, that’s a great question.

Chrissy Beltran [00:38:29]:

I mean, it’s a lot

Becca Silver [00:38:30]:

Yeah. It is. And it’s it’s a little like I think in different situations, I do different things. Mhmm. I think if it’s whole school, you know, I I think or if it’s, you know, starting to see whole grade level, I think I’d do a little PD around what growth and fixed mindset is and isn’t and how to shift it. Like, what growth you know, using examples of growth and fixed mindset language. Mhmm. I think that’s a place to start. I also would help the teacher start to embrace mistakes, and struggle and normalize that in their classroom. So there’s not it’s not just what we say. It’s what’s in the culture. Right? So if if you have to get the right answer in this teacher’s classroom, it doesn’t matter if they’re like, you haven’t gotten it yet, Johnny. If it’s not okay to fail, then, you know, if the if there’s kind of a a major focus on getting it right, then you’d still they you still won’t be successful in growing that growth mindset in the students. So I would say really working with the teacher on not only their growth mindset language, but also their classroom culture, normalizing structure and making mistakes. Sorry. Not structure. Struggle. Oh my gosh.

Chrissy Beltran [00:39:46]:

That’s alright. That’s okay. We all make mistakes.

Becca Silver [00:39:49]:

We all Here we are.

Chrissy Beltran [00:39:52]:

So what can you do if your administrator is using this language, if you’re hearing that from your from the top?

Becca Silver [00:39:59]:

Say that again. Say the question again.

Chrissy Beltran [00:40:01]:

What if your administrator is approaching their work with a fixed mindset and you as the coach hear it? So you meet the administrator every week or so, and they’re like, ugh. This grade level, they just this and that, and, you know, they’re passing labels on people. What is it that you can do as a coach? Like, what thoughts do you have on that? Because that’s that’s a it’s a tough spot to be in.

Becca Silver [00:40:18]:

It is, and I’ve been in that spot many times. I would talk about the teacher or the grade level’s growth. I would talk about where they are and how they’re growing. That’s where I’d keep the conversation. So the administrator will say, they’re just you know, I don’t know what administrator would say. They’re just focused on focusing on having control over their classroom and not the kids learning or whatever. You know? And I’d say, oh, well, I I’ve seen them grow in x y z. The thing I’m working on with them next is q, is is the next thing. You know? And so it’s just it’s focusing on growth, and that’s you know, I think that’s for everyone. We look at where we are and how we’re growing is absolutely normalizing that growth mindset as well.

Chrissy Beltran [00:41:08]:

Mhmm. I love it. That’s I really like that idea, and we can do that with teachers as well. It’s and I remember I had a teacher who used to come in after she got her assessment data back. She’d always she always called me miss Chrissy. She still does. She called me two months ago to ask for help or something, and she called me miss Chrissy. And she says, miss Chrissy, I just got my data, and oh my gosh. Like, she was just freaking out, which I understand. We’ve all felt that way. Mhmm. And I said, we’re not that’s not what we’re here to do. This is not the end. I used to tell her all the time, we’re we’re gonna make a plan. Let’s see what what can we do. Where can we go? What how how far did they come since last time? Where are they gonna go next? What are you gonna do to support it? This is about this is just one little piece of information in a whole year’s worth of information you’re gonna have about these kids, and we’re gonna use it to figure out what to do next. And it it’s true. If we can get our administrators to see it that way as well, what they’re doing right now is one part of everything they’re gonna do. And what can we do with them next, and where did they come from? You know? What’s working with them? I love that idea, that approach.

Becca Silver [00:42:12]:

Yeah. It’s you know? And it’s tough because you don’t wanna correct your boss. You don’t wanna be like, that’s a fixed mindset, isn’t it? Right? But you have that thought. And I think another thing is don’t walk into the trap. It’s easy It’s

Chrissy Beltran [00:42:25]:

very easy.

Becca Silver [00:42:26]:

It’s very easy to to

Chrissy Beltran [00:42:29]:

because some of you are like, I know.

Becca Silver [00:42:32]:

Deep down inside, like, yes.

Chrissy Beltran [00:42:35]:

That’s exactly what I’m saying. You know? And I’m trying not to think that way, but it’s so hard. Yeah.

Becca Silver [00:42:40]:

Yeah. Yeah. And so my response when someone’s operating under that that fixed mindset, that I agree with, by the way. Right? Because I know I don’t I’ve had that that moment so many times. I will say the words, I got it. I got it.

Chrissy Beltran [00:42:53]:

Okay.

Becca Silver [00:42:54]:

And where I’ve seen them grow is x, and what I’m working on is y.

Chrissy Beltran [00:43:00]:

That’s an interesting way. Yeah. Like, okay. I I know. I hear you. Mhmm. I I hear you. This is what we’re doing. Mhmm. Alright. So okay. This is a fun little thing that I have added. Also, all this information has been absolutely superb. But, this is I’ve this season, I am asking everybody, and I am also sharing on my solo episodes about favorite things. So I wanna know, what is your favorite thing right now? And it can be, like, any sort of thing. It can be digital media. It can be, you know, TV show. It can be a book. It can be a product. It can be a place. What is what is your favorite thing?

Becca Silver [00:43:34]:

Okay. This is a recent TV show I binge watched, and there was six seasons of it. So I was like, yes. Thank you. It’s called Manifest, and it’s about a a a plane full of people that takes off and lands five and a half years later. And it’s, like, wild. And what I love about it if you were in my community at all, you were you were hearing about the show, and I was asking everyone, did you watch? Did you watch? I wanted to talk about it. What I loved about it is that one of the overarching messages is that we’re all connected.

Chrissy Beltran [00:44:09]:

Okay.

Becca Silver [00:44:10]:

It was just I loved it. And it the people in the show start to, like, get these kind of messages that connect them to each other. So it’s, like, kind of a little bit of a sci fi element to it, but it really is about humanity at the end of the day. And I just loved it. Like, all the different unique ways the different characters in the story are connected to each other and and helped each other. It’s all about kind of, like, being connected and figuring out ways they could help each other in different situations. So yeah. No. I just loved it.

Chrissy Beltran [00:44:43]:

I love that. I wasn’t gonna share a favorite thing, but you reminded me that I recently binge watched, massive amounts of TV as well. And so I I think I will. I I was a huge fan of Breaking Bad, back whenever, you know, it was coming out. And so I recently I I watched some of Better Call Saul, but I there was the last season came out just a while ago. And so I was like, okay. I’m gonna watch all of Better Call Saul. So I I went back to the beginning of Better Call Saul. And then as I was watching it, I was like, I know I’m missing details here that were in Breaking Bad that are, like, cross referenced. So even though Better Call Saul is, like, a prequel to breaking bad, I still was like, I I need to go back and watch the one that was originally made. So then I watched all of breaking bad, which is, like, what, five or six seasons. And then I watched all of better call Saul, and I finished it just a little while ago, and I thought it was excellent. So this so you are not the only one who just binge watched multiple seasons of a show.

Becca Silver [00:45:35]:

Oh my gosh. So great. I love it. Yes.

Chrissy Beltran [00:45:38]:

Made so many Saul references lately. I’m like, oh, it’s like, I’ll just go fall whenever.

Becca Silver [00:45:44]:

My family’s like, that’s Yeah. You get connected to these characters, and, like, I worry about them. I’m like, I hope they’re okay. You know?

Chrissy Beltran [00:45:55]:

That’s good writing. That’s good writing.

Becca Silver [00:45:57]:

Yes. It is. It is. Alright.

Chrissy Beltran [00:46:00]:

Well, thank you so much for all of this. This has been fantastic. How can people find you online or in the real world, wherever you are located?

Becca Silver [00:46:10]:

Well, my the website to my company, The Whole Educator, is www.thewholeeducator.com. You can find me on Instagram at the whole educator or on Twitter at becca silver underscore e d u. Mhmm. I also have my own podcast that’s fairly new, and I was very much inspired by you, Chrissy. And it’s called Coaching the Whole Educator, so you can find me on major platforms across the land. We really focus on shifting mindsets and motivations within yourself. So if you’re really interested in that topic, like, that’s a great place to go. Is there any other place?

Chrissy Beltran [00:46:53]:

You had, you were saying something about growth mindset emails that you had.

Becca Silver [00:46:57]:

Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. And I also, I’ll share with Chrissy a link to an email series. It’s a free email series. You can sign up for it, and you’ll get, about four different emails spread out, and they will have a little video about different elements of growth mindset as well as a workbook for you if you are interested in learning more about growth mindset as well.

Chrissy Beltran [00:47:18]:

I love that. I’m sure there are people who are gonna take you up on it because, because because this has been really good information. I love how specific it was. So thank you so much for being here today.

Becca Silver [00:47:26]:

Yeah. You’re welcome.

Chrissy Beltran [00:47:27]:

Coach, I always love talking with Becca, so I’m so glad that we had her back on the podcast this season. If you are still wanting to learn more, make sure you check out those amazing resources that Becca mentioned. I know you’re gonna get some great information from it. Don’t forget, you can go to my, free webinar at buzzingwithmissb.com/darewithacapitald, and it will help you develop those tools to get into the classrooms. In next week’s episode, I am actually taking a different direction, and I am talking with AJ Crabill about changing adult mindsets. It’s a tall order to change these adult mindsets, but we’re gonna figure out why it’s so hard and what are some things that we can do about it. That’s gonna be in episode one thirty three next week. And until then, happy coaching. Thank you for listening to Buzzing with Miss b, the coaching podcast. Want more coaching ideas? Check me out at buzzingwithmissb.com and on Instagram at buzzing with miss b. If you love the show, share it with a coach who would love it too, or leave me a review on iTunes. It’s free, and it helps others find this show. Happy coaching.